ET BEGINNERS #2 Map voting and no stacking banner.

[notellenPage]

Howdy! I'm coming today with 2 things I've noticed recently and they started bothering me and I would like to suggest to change them on Beg#2. 

 

First thing, which is a big problem for me and for the rest of the regulars who play more than 1h a day, is same maps are getting voted every time. I mean not all the time but we can assume that every 10 times there will be Goldrush voted, or Italy, or Venice, or Delivery or... We have so many interesting maps there but we play just 8 of them, or 10. I know these maps are the best known from the long list of playable maps but in my opinion we should try to make or even force other players to play them. I don't think no one, even the newcomers will resign from playing on our server just because we're playing for example Cathedral, not the Venice all over again. Is there any way to somehow block the maps from showing on the list till... let's say 15 or maybe 20 maps? That would solve the issue I think. And what do you think?

 

Second thing I would like to suggest is could we add a banner that could be showed on every screen before autoshuffle reminding about no teamswitching after shuffle? Something like the green one which is shown after !teams1 cmd. I know Kermit and Rendel they've got their own binds reminding about that but the issue is with newcomers, after autoshuffle they have to be moved back to even the teams. I'm not saying it's hard to do or I got bored, that's the job I agreed to have, but it might make our time...more comfortable? I also know there is one which is shown on the chat from time to time but a lot of people doesn't care about the main chat.

Someone told me this was proposed some time ago but there was no echo so I'm letting myself to call the regulars from beg#2 (if I forgot about someone sorry )

:

@Night Train @Palace @PHNTM @Ellen  @THORGAL @Xeilon  @Orangutan @Hesis @Ins4ne @Komodo  @Bekantan @lem0n91  @ExCaL  @Basalisk  @RendeL  @Cross Marian @K3rmit

[CheepHeep]

I agree that maps get repeated quite a lot. Same thing occurs on Hardcore. However, it is hard to find a map that is fresh and people like. Nowadays, most people aren't bothered to learn new maps. So try introducing "easy to learn" maps that have a nice appearance. If a new map looks bad - first impression is bad and people will automatically hate it without trying. With the map voting delay, I think 15-20 is too much a jump. I am not sure what it is currently but you could try bumping it up by 2 maps and then if there are no results bump it up by 2 again and so on.

 

Regarding the banner, good idea however "no teamswitching after shuffle" is wrong - our wiki says they ARE allowed to switch after shuffle as long as it doesn't make teams unfair in the process. Our main rule is no stacking since that is what causes the teams to become uneven. So perhaps try and think of a short phrase that lets the regulars know that they are allowed to switch after shuffle BUT if it causes teams to go uneven, they will be moved back - up to the admin present whether teams are unfair when they move.

 

I recall DD making a topic about a list of rules that regulars and admins alike could recall on the server by typing !rules. That could help too - a banner reminding people to get familiar with the more common rules.

[PHNTM]

37 minutes ago, CheepHeep said:

 With the map voting delay, I think 15-20 is too much a jump. I am not sure what it is currently but you could try bumping it up by 2 maps and then if there are no results bump it up by 2 again and so on.

 

I agree with cheep, 15-20 is a bit too much but I would jump straight to a 6/8 map delay. 

Looking at my gaming session on the 23rd of November:

 

Capuzzo

Supply Depot

Capuzzo

Fragmaze

Temple

Special Delivery

Seawall Battery

Goldrush

V2 Base

Venice

Oasis

Special Delivery

ET Beach Invasion

Egypt (blegh)

Goldrush

Cathedral

School

Reactor

Snatch

Pirates 

Italy

Venice

Fragmaze

Tc Base

Special Delivery

Supply Depot

Adlernest

 

It was actually not bad at all, there was a good variety of maps being voted on that day but you can see Special Delivery being voted 3 times there. 

Between the 1st and 2nd time that Special Delivery was voted we had 12 different maps. The second interval shows only 5 different maps and 3 of them are Venice , Goldrush (these were both voted twice in the session) and Oasis.

We have a great variety of maps therefore a 6/8 map delay wouldn't be an issue and I don't think anybody would mind playing Goldrush/Venice/Oasis/Special Delivery/ Italy every 8 maps or so. 

I think it's a good idea.

 

[RendeL]

A banner would be nice yes, but in the end it wont stop ppl stacking if they want to. In the end it is in our hands.

I've seen many regulars be willing to even when needed, which is also great now. This wasn't the case before, so a lot progress has happened there also.

 

Yes the rules stuff is coming also, I just talked about the set of those with DD the other evening.

 

About maps, I really would need suggestions, as I haven't been able to really test new maps lately for being a busy bee at work and at evenings, I am just exhausted.

I'll think about something, maybe cut the biggest maps to just on vote when 30+ ppl are on. It'd give few slots for possible new maps. I dont want to take off the most popular maps, as the server is doing great atm. A little bit of testing here and there with maps and I'm sure we get to slide in few new ones to play more often.

 

So give me some with quite easy objective, small and big maps, so those could be put on by ppl count. That's a start atleast. I'll put on my testing pants (or pants overall) again this weekend...

[PhoeniXx]

1. If the maps are repeating... We can take out the voting system and make the server follow a definite cycle like in jaymod server... Dont know if its possible or not 😛

 

a better way is keeping a short cycle of 8maps and changing it weekly or once per 2 weeks

 

2. I agree with rendel on the banner thing... No one reads when they are playing on server and they are not expected to even... And 90% dont even care... So its a drag but you have to do it manually only...

[D..X]

if its that big an issue then like phoenixx said maybe a map cycle would work well there 

ask dd if its something you can try for 2 weeks see what the feedback is might work well that 

way every map gets played

Edited November 26, 2019 by D..X

[Cross Marian]

3 minutes ago, PhoeniXx said:

1. If the maps are repeating... We can take out the voting system and make the server follow a definite cycle like in jaymod server

With all due respect to Jaymod servers, I don't really like this idea. I feel like people still want to have a word to say about the next map.

And like Rendel said, globally, Beg#2 has been doing well recently, with many players (regulars and new preys), so I wouldn't dare to make such a change at the moment   But it's interesting, I didn't know Jaymod servers worked like that.

 

I have an idea to encourage people to vote for different maps:

When we are on the screen to vote for the next map. Most of these maps are disclosed in the same "boring" style (like a dark grey font over a light grey background).

Maybe we could add a catchy sign in front of the new maps to attract the eye. This might encourage people to try to vote for different maps. Example below:

We could also use a specific color code to highlight new maps in the list of voting maps.

I don't know if this would be easy to do (from an IT point of view) 🤔

 

 

Other than that, I just wanted to say that I personally don't mind playing 2 times the same map during an evening. As long as there are at least 6 maps in between. So I would agree with Phantom and Cheep to set a minimum delay before the same map can be played again.

 

 

[rambozo37]

I started to play on BEGS #2 lately. I like the fact we can vote maps. I do agree with @notellenPage it gets boring to play same maps over and over. If we can put a delay of 8-10 maps that would be great. The other thing, there's a to big choice of maps for voting. We have to scroll down to get to the end of the list. Most of the time at the end of the list there's very interesting maps but my guess is not allot of players don't bother to scroll down and just vote quickly. Not talking about the fact we have 5-6 players who vote for same maps and 10 one vote for other maps. So maybe reduce the list, make the list random and a delay for voted maps would be nice.

 

Not sure putting a map cycle would be the best idea. The server seems to get good numbers lately so a drastic change like that might not be well received. Its always great as a player to have choices. Just restrain them and no one will see the difference

Edited November 26, 2019 by rambozo37

[seriallnumber]

I don't think it's a good idea changing it to jaymod for a map cycle. Beg#2 is not much crowded during the American game time(during  the weekdays especially).So it usually has people for about 12 hours of a day.Which also means during that 12 hours when server is not crowded , people would like to vote for the maps they like the most .And also during that 12 hours when it's crowded , people vote those maps continuously , so by democracy they want those maps to play again , i don't see how that's bad.Also it's possible quite a few ppls came 2 maps later goldush passed , so they would like to play it.

If you don't feel like playing those maps repeated , you can always try other servers in the meantime 😁.

[Chuuu]

Hello Everyone.

As the guys said in the above text, we have various options, but you are right Notellen, the map is repeated one after the other, last night I convinced myself  and many times, it may not be a problem for us because many new players on the server choose what it suits them, as far as stability is concerned, we see that lately, we as members are equaling teams to be ok. In terms of that, maybe everything is in our hands, if there is another solution then it is another matter.

 

Cheers😉😊

[notellenPage]

21 hours ago, CheepHeep said:

I am not sure what it is currently but you could try bumping it up by 2 maps and then if there are no results bump it up by 2 again and so on.

I think it's 8 now, at least I've seen few times map got voted for the next and it was just 8 maps ago. And yes, when I think about it today, 15 might be too much for a starter, so let's try 2.

 

21 hours ago, CheepHeep said:

Regarding the banner, good idea however "no teamswitching after shuffle" is wrong - our wiki says they ARE allowed to switch after shuffle as long as it doesn't make teams unfair in the process. Our main rule is no stacking since that is what causes the teams to become uneven. So perhaps try and think of a short phrase that lets the regulars know that they are allowed to switch after shuffle BUT if it causes teams to go uneven, they will be moved back - up to the admin present whether teams are unfair when they move.

I am aware what our wiki says about teamswitching after shuffle but when it comes to team switching it's hard to decide if that player is making the teams uneven and I was thinking more about the newcomers, who just came to any of our servers. When they switch to another team, I simply write them a PM informing about our rules but usually I'm not getting any info back and I don't move them so they can learn the rules from playing. I will try to think about better phrase, that was just an example. What about: You can switch the teams after shuffle but keep them even or you will be moved back.

 

19 hours ago, RendeL said:

So give me some with quite easy objective, small and big maps, so those could be put on by ppl count. That's a start atleast.

I will try to find new ones, I'm gonna reach you on discord to talk about it.

 

19 hours ago, PhoeniXx said:

1. If the maps are repeating... We can take out the voting system and make the server follow a definite cycle like in jaymod server.

Please don't

 

19 hours ago, D..X said:

if its that big an issue then like phoenixx said maybe a map cycle would work well there 

ask dd if its something you can try for 2 weeks see what the feedback is might work well that 

way every map gets played

It's not that bad in the end, it's just a simple suggestion to raise the delay between maps, in my opinion it might make it better there. If it works and everyone will be happy, good, if not - we'll bring back the old settings.

 

 

[Ins4ne]

It's true that the maps often repeat, but probably because most players come in to play an hour or two and prefer to play what they know rather than learn new ones.
 

On 11/26/2019 at 8:38 PM, CheepHeep said:

With the map voting delay, I think 15-20 is too much a jump. I am not sure what it is currently but you could try bumping it up by 2 maps and then if there are no results bump it up by 2 again and so on.

I think this is the best option at the moment.

 

On 11/26/2019 at 10:38 PM, Cross Marian said:

I have an idea to encourage people to vote for different maps:

When we are on the screen to vote for the next map. Most of these maps are disclosed in the same "boring" style (like a dark grey font over a light grey background).

Maybe we could add a catchy sign in front of the new maps to attract the eye. This might encourage people to try to vote for different maps. Example below:

We could also use a specific color code to highlight new maps in the list of voting maps.

I don't know if this would be easy to do (from an IT point of view) 🤔

This is also a good option if it is quite easy to do. I think it would attract players' attention during voting.


I will add that today we have played some other maps, at least while I was on the server. 😁

[Ellen]

One way of dealing with unbalanced teams would be making it possible to only join the team with a certain amount of less kills or KR. So you'd need to change the team joining mechanic. Now balance could be undone either when: a) player makes team weaker by going spec or leaving, or b) player joins the better team that has less players. A better option would be to control team strength by automatically checking KR (or kill difference in later stages of a map). Let's say axis have a KR advantage of 10 and we accept only 8. They have 7 players and allies 9. You could only join allies as long as the KR difference is over 8 in axis advantage or vice versa. Team balance on Beg#2 has been clearly better compared to March - June this year. What sometimes is a problem that persists, is how absolute top players (flamma, Phantom, El) "mess up" comparative strength of teams. Often people look at how many players each side has, but when we have, for example, 10 vs 12 it usually doesn't matter. If you understand the game and check /scores, it's usually quite obvious when there are issues and when there are none. TLDR: Good balancing requires changing the mechanics of which team you can join.

 

About map selection then. What I've noticed I've been doing when I see some votes being cast, is that I tend to give three points to a map that I wish to win over another map that has been given votes. These maps tend to be the popular ones. Great, less played maps are the losers in these situations. I don't think there is an easy solution to playing a good variety of interesting maps and democracy. I personally would like to see old ET style campaigns (three maps played in same order, EXP starts from zero) and other game types like Last Man Standing (no respawn) and Stopwatch (both defence and attack plays, locked teams). But I doubt others like these ideas. Also, people with rights: call !nextmap and !shufflenorestart more often! They reignite a map that gets stalled. Sometimes two or three people can succeed in voting a map (Minas Tirith, I'm looking at U!) people get bored at in five minutes. I don't support a delay in voting a map again, since that is not an issue. Maybe you could code it so that the server offers authoritatively a new and exciting map that hasn't been played often (TC Base, V2 Base, Adlernest, Cathedral, ET Ice, Reactor). As for stacking, just give stackers a kick and a short ban from server. They know what they are doing.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Ellen

[Basalisk]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:49 PM, rambozo37 said:

 We have to scroll down to get to the end of the list. Most of the time at the end of the list there's very interesting maps but my guess is not allot of players don't bother to scroll down and just vote quickly.

^^ This is a great point 💯 Adlernest always seems to be at the bottom of the list and not voted for as often as it could be because "out of sight, out of mind". Would be nice to see all the maps without having to remember to scroll down.

[notellenPage]

Quote

First thing, which is a big problem for me and for the rest of the regulars who play more than 1h a day, is same maps are getting voted every time. I mean not all the time but we can assume that every 10 times there will be Goldrush voted, or Italy, or Venice, or Delivery or... We have so many interesting maps there but we play just 8 of them, or 10. I know these maps are the best known from the long list of playable maps but in my opinion we should try to make or even force other players to play them. I don't think no one, even the newcomers will resign from playing on our server just because we're playing for example Cathedral, not the Venice all over again. Is there any way to somehow block the maps from showing on the list till... let's say 15 or maybe 20 maps? That would solve the issue I think. And what do you think?

Good evening ladies and gentleman, it's been months since I suggested to raise the delay between maps. Yes, I agree 15 is too much but could we do at least 10? Or or or 12? 12 would be perfect. Who's wall I have to spam with it to get an answer if that's possible or not?

 

and @Mint Candies this is the topic we talked about, you can post your thouguhts here

Edited June 4, 2020 by notellenPage