ET Jay #2 ADRENALINE Poll

[captnconcrete]

happy friendly fun.  smiles . good examples. fair admins. teamwork.

 

respect!!! this all matters way more than a 10sec speed burst.

we all will eventually be re spawning anyhow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nAbish]

12 hours ago, Haruhi Suzumiya said:

I'd be down to play jay2 more often if jay1 was limited to direct more players to jay2.  Still  100% in favor of making adren only keep the sprint recharged over reduced damage.  Multiple players using adren is usually the reason I refuse to play there unless it's just omnibots.

 

I've come across a lot of jay1 regulars that don't play there because of the adren, even though they think jay1 is overcrowded and would like to play the same mod.  So part of the reason jay2 draws less players is the fact that it has adren.  You might lose some players but gain more in the process.  There's other servers with adren they can play on.  jay1 is already overly crowded so fixing the adren mechanics would probably draw a lot more of the jay1 players when the server is full or just overly spammed.  So it could fix the over crowded jay1 server at the same time as drawing new players to jay2.

 

Also in favor or giving it to engi's only to improve objective play.  No issues with that at all.  Most of the medics I come across using adren are in no way playing objective.

100% Agreed. 

[Haruhi Suzumiya]

@HOTSPUR I doubt it would be overcrowded.  Maybe a few more players but nothing like jay1.

 

I've always thought it would be nice to split jay 1 into two servers, like a jay1 and a jay1.2.  Keep all the same settings and possibly different rotations in case someone leaves or goes spec on jay1 just go not play a map.

 

20v20 max players on jay1 with more slots for people to spectate and admins to hang out would be awesome.  Above that the server really gets out of hand.

[nAbish]

2 minutes ago, Haruhi Suzumiya said:

@HOTSPUR I doubt it would be overcrowded.  Maybe a few more players but nothing like jay1.

 

I've always thought it would be nice to split jay 1 into two servers, like a jay1 and a jay1.2.  Keep all the same settings and possibly different rotations in case someone leaves or goes spec on jay1 just go not play a map.

 

20v20 max players on jay1 with more slots for people to spectate and admins to hang out would be awesome.  Above that the server really gets out of hand.

Again, I 100% agree. Only way Jay 2 will get more attention and regulars. Full server on Jay 1 is just complete udder chaos that is very much unneeded. A good ol school 10v10-15v15 at most would be a little more relaxed gameplay. I don't see how this would hurt either server... Just my honest opinion. 

[-=HipKat=-]

16 hours ago, HOTSPUR said:

But then surely we will just end up.with 2 over crowded servers?? I'm all for busy but to the point where u can't play I'm against. 

I don't think there's enough players to overcrowd both servers. The times Jay 1 were down recently and Jay 2 filled up, it wasn't overcrowded since not every Jay 1 player came to Jay 2 but it was a lot of fun.

@ElEl Dude, you're little past just decent lol

[Eazy]

On 5/16/2022 at 4:19 AM, ElEl said:

 it's the lack of players on the server. Simple fix for that, lower the max player count for Jay1 so there are more redirects to Jay2.

That s a none sense ,  reducing player count on jay 1 doesn t mean more ppl on jay 2 ..  ppl are refreshing until there is an open spot on jay 1 . Even with a full server , you can usually join within a minute .

 

Jay 1 is our most popular server because it is the way it is.  The chaos of the full server is what people like . Lowering jay 1 player count only make it a server like every other and lose it s appealing to most players. 

 

Jay 3 has been almost always max'ed player count lately even with adren and rapid fire . To me that says there is a community for adren user . 

[mraw435]

I held off posting here because I have not played on Jay2 for a while, but after reading through all the comments I wanted to share.

 

When I came back to ET last year, I started out on Jay2. I was a fan of the maps, admin, regs, gameplay. As an obj player, I was a big fan of adren because I could 1.) get places faster and 2.) survive escorting the tank. I ended up playing on Jay1 a lot more because I have found myself enjoying the chaos -- count me in for a good time with rnades flying, panzers shot from the sky, and poison knives hitting my ankles! 

 

End of the day, I personally think adren should stay as I think removing it will take away an element that makes jay2 unique. Even if a solid player is using it, it resorts back to a 'level' playing field if everyone is using it strategically. 

 

I dont think removing adren will have any noticeable impact on jay1. Like Eazy, jay1 players will sit and press reconnect until they get in which usually is less than a minute (ive done it myself). Folks complain about jay1 poison knives (ive nearly rage quit a few times lol) and on the flip side, folks complain about adren on jay2. End of day, there is always something to complain about -- its how you adapt.

[captnconcrete]

looks like the people on jay1 dont want to change jay1 anymore than the people on jay2 want there server changed.

 

too fill a server u must play there. that's bottom line.

 

rendel was camping jay2 it got more people rendel stopped camping jay2 it got less people.!!!! stop bitching and whining on jay2 an ill play more. its what has turned me off to it lately. i want to unwind relax have fun laugh not listen to sum baby crying about how he got sand on his pacifier . everyone here is guilty of nothing. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this to me is  the biggest problem on jay2 people and there dam stupid eggos. my answer is arent u a full grown ass man. its a game....!!!!!

 

side note !!!! in a short  min we will see who sucks the pacifier.!!!!

 

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by captnconcrete

[ElEl]

9 hours ago, Eazy said:

That s a none sense ,  reducing player count on jay 1 doesn t mean more ppl on jay 2 ..  ppl are refreshing until there is an open spot on jay 1 . Even with a full server , you can usually join within a minute

I wouldn't call it nonsense, neither would the leader I spoke to about it when the player count for Jay1 got upped from 51 to 60. I'm certain there are other admins and regulars here as well who noticed the sudden drop in players the exact same time Jay1 got the increase of player slots. 

 

 

Haruhi backs what I said though we have differing opinions on adrenaline:

On 5/16/2022 at 10:03 AM, Haruhi Suzumiya said:

I'd be down to play jay2 more often if jay1 was limited to direct more players to jay2

I'm pretty sure Hipkat only joined us on Jay2 because of the Jay1 redirect. I'm sure there are multiple others. He also solidified my point:

11 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

I don't think there's enough players to overcrowd both servers. The times Jay 1 were down recently and Jay 2 filled up, it wasn't overcrowded since not every Jay 1 player came to Jay 2 but it was a lot of fun.

I think this is something to consider and not just brushed off as 'nonsense'.

If people are playing Jay2 when Jay1 is down, it stands to reason that people will play Jay2 when Jay1 has less slots.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Eazy said:

Jay 1 is our most popular server because it is the way it is.  The chaos of the full server is what people like . Lowering jay 1 player count only make it a server like every other and lose it s appealing to most players. 

 

People go where people are. More redirects to Jay2 => more players => healthier server. 

 

9 hours ago, Eazy said:

Jay 3 has been almost always max'ed player count lately even with adren and rapid fire . To me that says there is a community for adren user . 

You mean the only European Jaymod F|A server - particularly labelled as a beginner server - has a big increase of players after the Steam release of ET? Damn.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, captnconcrete said:

looks like the people on jay1 dont want to change jay1 anymore than the people on jay2 want there server changed.

Hit the nail on the head. Just leave everything as it is on Jay2 if people don't want anything changing on Jay1. I avoid Jay1 when it's got more than 15v15 cause that shit is just unplayable and ET isn't meant for that many people. Can't imagine how anyone can enjoy attacking 30v30 when Axis is just full of camping medics farming kills and rating but it is what it is I guess 😅. Hit detection goes straight out the window after the last bot is removed as well.

 

 

Haruhi could you PM me some servers that have the same settings at Jay2 and decent activity? I wouldn't mind Jay2 being changed if I had an alternative but it's hard to find a Jaymod server with the exact settings that Jay2 has. I tried ETc but I'm not a fan of nitmod. There's nothing else similar I can find in the splatterladder top servers around this time. 

Anyone remember Bhoy's fun server (or whatever it was called)? Or Tibet Temple? Man I had a ton of fun on those servers yeeeeeaaars ago, it's a shame they shut down .

[-=HipKat=-]

10 hours ago, Eazy said:

That s a none sense ,  reducing player count on jay 1 doesn t mean more ppl on jay 2 ..  ppl are refreshing until there is an open spot on jay 1 . Even with a full server , you can usually join within a minute .

 

Jay 1 is our most popular server because it is the way it is.  The chaos of the full server is what people like . Lowering jay 1 player count only make it a server like every other and lose it s appealing to most players. 

 

Jay 3 has been almost always max'ed player count lately even with adren and rapid fire . To me that says there is a community for adren user . 

Sometimes I wonder if it’s that or the rapid fire that draws for people to that server.

[PHNTM]

 

I've seen this before.

 

People realise something must be wrong. 

 

Discuss the issues.

 

Come up with constructive solutions. 

 

Somehow convince themselves nothing is wrong. Because "that's the way it is".

 

Everything stays the same.

 

Why do we even bother. 

 

 

[Valk]

Why change something that doesn't need to be fixed? Jay2 seems to be a more relaxed server with jay1 being manic, but as mentioned above, some people do like it. 

[PHNTM]

8 minutes ago, Valk said:

Why change something that doesn't need to be fixed? Jay2 seems to be a more relaxed server with jay1 being manic, but as mentioned above, some people do like it. 

 

Something needs to change to attract regulars.

I would be playing regularly on jay2 if it was populated, I really don't enjoy the spam and chaos in jay1.

If this means changing the adrenaline mechanics to stamina only or reducing jay1 slots + redirect to jay2 so be it. I agree with El and Haru on this but I my views on adrenaline are more in sync with Haru's. 

 

I'm just saying that we need to ensure this discussion leads to some practical results.

[captnconcrete]

bottom line is play there. and more people will show up. 

 

dont stack so u are like a etgod.  keep it more fair ...  sum of u involved in this thread are above average . and very skilled . like Destiny iowmen  phantom el! haru and cake. you fellas are very good players .. no one wants to play all 6 of u at once on same team!lol hell even hotspurs and delord on  wrong team can make it no fun.  all of u i mentioned  should not be playing up a player when other team has 3 or 4 noobish type skilled players. i realize its hard to do when no one else  on matches ur skill. but hammering other teams ass for 2 or 3 maps is also gonna kill the server.

 

and it used to be  that the redirect from jay1 was better, we had more overflow me an el! an hipkat have chatted on this in past.  i agree that lowering the count on jay1 will help jay2 a bit.. it has in the past.

 

jay2 has its ups and downs . its not a packed house. its nice and chill and relaxed. we are lucky to get 5 good matches where everyone gets along and  server fills up. 

 

i am personally watching the riff raff on jay2 and i am going to approach it with ZERO tolerance. im sick of the BS accusations. i already got rid of one turd.!!!!!much more peacefully when there not around.

 

 

[the cake is a lie]

First, I want to thank everyone for participating in the poll. I appreciate the concerns and preferences of those who don't want to harm the character of jay2 and/or actually enjoy using adrenaline. I think we can all agree that though that jay2 currently has unhealthy population numbers and there are rarely enough players for a sustained fun time.

 

For ease of reading I've split this up into three sections: analysis of the poll results, my personal views on adrenaline, a suggested plan to revitalize jay2 over the next month.

 

Now that the poll is closed and the votes are in it's time for the analysis to begin. Here is some (relatively) neutral analysis of the poll results:

 

It's hard to get much value from the answers to the old question #1 asking how do jay2 regulars feel about adren. I think it was a mistake to split off the question meant for jay2 regulars, to put it on the forum index sidebar without context, and to hide the names of the respondents. As someone said earlier, there probably aren't 60+ jay2 regulars. We would need the respondents names unmasked to figure out which votes should actually be counted on this question.

 

However, the percent of people with each choice didn't change much from the first few days to the current percentages. My recollection is that initially the neutral group was closer to 45 percent and the prefer adrenaline group was closer to 25 percent. So, something like 70-80 percent of players would be satisfied with either decision.

 

A few very vocal and seemingly angry or offended players posted in this thread in opposition to the change. Even among those, I think I only saw one player (spectator) threaten to leave the server (and go where?) if adrenaline is removed. About twice as many (10-5) of the commenters here opposed the change compared to those in favor.

 

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The results from the second question do indicate that adrenaline is second most significant reason (of the options given) why people don't play on jay2. Removing or modifying adrenaline would indirectly help with the main reason people don't play on jay2: too few humans and too many omni-bots.

 

The results from this question make clear that the maps and are not a big part of the population problems. The ability to run a much greater variety of maps compared to jay1 is probably one of the most attractive things about playing on jay2.

 

A fair number of people chose "ping" as a reason for not playing at jay2. I included this answer option for those who are just too far from the server but it suggest the server location is not a big issue.

 

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70% of voters would prefer a modified or less powerful adrenaline mechanic, with 75% of that group preferring sprint only and no damage reduction. If adrenaline is going to remain, this seems like the change that would have the broadest support among players. (Also, this change is very easy to do, only a few lines of code need to be commented out or removed.)

 

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Here what I personally don't like about adrenaline:

 

The adrenaline mechanic is extremely overpowered. It distorts the play-style, overall game-play, and becomes the entire 'meta' of the game. Like the AWP in CS:GO (a powerful 1 shot kill weapon), you have to constantly be thinking of how other players will use and 'abuse' it.

With the very short spawn times and double jump (like on jay2), it is easily 'abused' by respawning. You can't get your charge bar replenished by using \kill but you can by taking a fall death, setting off landmines, or just leaping at the enemy without any regard for survival (see how Delord and EL! play) to get into limbo and respawn almost as quickly.

Unlike NQ, there is no visible indicator in Jaymod that a player is using adrenaline. I haven't played NQ lately but I think the eyes glow when it is active.

Hit registration feels extra shitty in the longer fights that happen against people using adren. There are two reasons for this:

 

When the combined ping and built in engine lags of two players is more than 150ms (basically always on jay2) prediciton errors can accumulate and basically never settle. If a player hits you steadily you can't hit as well because you're not ever actually firing from where it looks like you are on your screen. An adren vs adren fights tend to last longer so this flaw sticks out more.

The other reason is just spread. The longer a fight lasts, typically the higher your weapon spread will be towards the end. Headshots are typically harder to land on aden users because of the unlimited stamina so you end up with a lot more body shots to get the kill. (Jaymod hitboxes are often up to 50ms behind the player models and other quirks like some A-D key movement patterns 'throwing' the hitboxes around.)

With adrenaline enabled it is much harder to actually win fights against multiple opponents at once (2v1, 3v1, 2v3, etc). The typical time to kill in ET with bullets is already fairly long (between 0.5 and 1.5 sec). The longer it takes to kill each opponent, the more time it gives target 2, 3, 4 to hit and kill you. Adrenaline does let you avoid fights and run away more easily as spectator's video shows. Not a lot of fun in my opinion.

I don't particularly like a lot of the jay1 settings either (poison knives, too much starting ammo + grenades, unlimited rifle grenades, short spawn time, too many landmine, too many players on small maps, etc) but at least there are typically humans to play against. I'm sure a lot of the players on jay1 feel similarly and F|A shouldn't assume that because they have a relatively captive player base that people are entirely satisfied with the server settings just because they are not constantly complaining.

 

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At the moment jay2 seems to almost be on life support even with the influx of new/returning players from steam.

Here is a typical situation when I check in on jay1 vs jay2 populations:

jay1: 44 playing, 10 in spec
jay2: 2 playing, 2 in spec

 

Here is the populations of jay1 (solid) and jay2 (dotted) from last week, Thursday through Sunday using hourly data from TrackBase:

 

 

From what I can tell, TrackBase counts the total number of humans on the server whether on a team or in spectator.

I think jay2 would be healthier and the players on both jay1 and jay2 happier if players are more encouraged and nudged into playing on jay2.

 

For the first week run banners on jay1 alerting players that the number of slots on jay1 is being reduced and that adren is (at least temporarily) being removed from jay2.

 

Over the next week, gradually reduced the number of player and spectator slots on jay1 by 2 player slots and ~2 spectator slots each day.

 

M: 52, 58 (player slots, total slots)
T: 50, 56
W: 48, 54
R: 46, 52
F: 44, 50
S: 42, 48
U: 40, 46

 

Based on the graph, I think 40 player slots about the right critical number for jay1 to so that jay2 will have a viable population for more than 1-2 hours each day without significantly changing the character of jay1, 20v20 on et_beach for example is still extremely chaotic.

 

After a few weeks, the number of player and spectator slots on jay1 could be slowly increased back to near the current levels. My suggestion would be to make the eventual new limit 44 player slots and 48-50 total slots.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by the cake is a lie
merged replies and clarity