ET Jay #2 Hard to hit players on Jaymod 2

[spectator]

I play on Jaymod 2

I'm not saying that it's intentional or that anything can be done about it. 

Anyone who has played for years knows when a hit is a hit. It's very strange when you shoot 10 players and they get hit just like you'd expect, ding ding ding... then a super medic player who is hard to hit comes along and you have him clearly in the hit zone, you click the mouse and it's like your bullets never reach him. 😄

I'm not the only one that has commented on this...I consider Hotspur to be a good player and he has commented on it too with a few players.  Some players don't get hit as they should. You know where the hit boxes are by now,  you know darn well by now what is a hit and what is a miss. Honestly the difference is pretty HUGE to anyone who has played awhile. If you can't tell the difference between a hit and a miss by now then you haven't been playing enough for a game that's 20 years old...



I admit that it's good that we still have people who play. I have to try to be nicer to these players because sometimes I get pretty annoyed by it.  They have almost god-like power to deflect your shots. They can die...eventually but only because players wear them down or you catch them on a reload or get them from behind.  Sometimes you just get the best of them but it's sure annoying when you face off to players like that, and you do everything right and you still can't hit them....

No one is really THAT good that if you can shoot a room of like 10 guys, there's this magic man who dominates you and everyone else. High ACC doesn't even matter. A good player can tear it up with like 34 ACC or less... it's not a ACC thing...I've come to realize that... 

I know adren factors into this a little bit but there's more to it than that.  

Edited February 15, 2021 by spectator

[Cross Marian]

Hello there,

 

If you think it's a problem related to the server or some glitches, next time you witness it, directly warn an admin present on the server. Also, take some demo that we can analyse to see what you experienced. There can be many explanations for that. Also, hitboxes change depending on which mod is played.

 

 

Now, if you have met some player(s) you suspect of cheating, you are free to report it to our cheater section : https://fearless-assassins.com/forums/forum/70-cheater-report/

In this case, you also need to take some proof (demo) and we will check it out.

 

There are some cheaters out there, that's for sure. But there will always be god-like players as well who are legit.

I mean, you can be a good or even an excellent player, there will always be someone wih far greater skills than yours. And for that person, there will also be someone else even better than him (and so on) Can't escape that law.

 

On a side note, we currently have an open topic about improving your skills : https://fearless-assassins.com/forums/topic/121405-improve-shooting-skills/

Maybe you can find some useful info there

 

[D..X]

6 hours ago, spectator said:

I know adren factors into this a little bit but there's more to it than that. 

keep in mind that a medic starts off with a slight bit more health then other classes also im not 

quite sure on exact numbers or % but some one on adren when you hit your only doing like half damage or so(correct me on the # if im wrong)

so a skilled medic with all the extras is very hard to kill for most people.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2021 by D..X

[spectator]

No, it's not cheating my friends. I never stated that it was.  Inexperienced players jump to that conclusion automatically... 


  I'm also aware that medics have extra HP when in full health. But, medics don't have full HP at all times. (Sorry going to use some common sense) The thing is that if I have full HP and I see a medic hiding in a corner healing with med packs I should the advantage. You can see every time how much HP  your opponent has left after a fight. If you play enough you can sense how beat up they were when they faced you... they wont always have full medic HP. Let's be sensible here about that... 😄  Extra HP does not mean that you always have extra HP or don't ever get hit... ( Unless it does....)  

They need to throw down med packs mid fight. (Which is doable but then they have to move weird to get it during the fight)  Or they have to run away and self heal...
It's not that simple when it comes to medic HP.... I can tell you that right now... (You are right about adren...) (But here's a hint...EVERYONE can use adren...) 

But of course medic HP helps when entering a fight without already having loss health... most players experience health loss...wouldn't you think? After they kill say 5 guys in a short time and take lots of damage, run and hide... and I have the drop on them and I'm 2 feet away. I most definitely without a doubt should have a advantage. (I beyond any doubt, regardless what any of you have to say at least have that much experience to stand toe to toe with any player who is already beat up....) Incidentally that's how most these players die, eventually when already wounded as obviously they don't always have 150 HP, someone gets lucky lands a few good shots and they die....😉 The only reason they would always have 150 hp based on common sense is if they were a god or literally no one ever hit them.... ( And no, a good player with 30 acc can stand toe to toe with a player with 45, you can ask some of the guys who play there who are actually worth a damn...) 

The thing is that they will get like 110 vs 10 ratio and no one, literally no one in the room can hit them. To make it even more real, numerous players will say "wtf" or "you can't be hit".... (Good players say it,  experienced players...) These players only go down because of law of averages, they have to die eventually... I'll be real with you, real with myself, everyone.... I can kill a medic, I can kill a good player who is a medic. ( I honestly can... but I can't kill a medic with super powers...that no one can hit....)  I can kill a medic as ANY  job function especially with FG42.... Some of these guys, you can't even hit with a FG42...( If you know anything about ET and you don't suck, you should do fine with FG42 and you should know that it has the speed and power to mess up any normal player....it's a unfair advantage....)  A good player, experienced player knows that you can still do heavy damage to a team as any class... you don't have to be a medic. Also, ACC is more complicated than  "how good you are"... ( It depends on how you are firing, if you're anticipating their movement, if you fire in spurts... if you're drawing them out, it depends on a lot of things but that's something that you could write books about....) (FG42 for instance is usually a higher ACC weapon, medic class is also a higher ACC class, and of course flame is super high ACC as well as arty.... dual pistols if you're good is also higher ACC) (But it gets a lot more complicated than this....) 


It's not a server glitch... 

Look, it's very simple...I don't need tutorials... The hit boxes are pretty large and when you have your cursor on a target and you click there is absolutely  NO ROOM for doubt that you're hitting that target. Missing a target and hitting a target is a HUGE difference that you'd have to be blind not to see. ET doesn't make it "close".... the difference is a mile... ET is NOT designed where you need 50 or 45 ACC to hit a target. You can destroy a room of 10 opponents with 30 ACC or lower. This is actually quite the fact.  Also, any one who has played for years knows when they hit a target... ESPECIALLY if they are having a good day, are destroying the entire room and some guy comes in and is warping ( do you even know what warping is, probably not... ) and yes, hard to hit...


I don't need to convince anyone here , ET isn't designed as a game that if you are say 2 feet away from a target  with your cursor that you are missing. I put led right in the center of some of these guys and I don't hit them... It's a real problem and any one who has played knows when they are making a hit vs a miss...the difference is not hard to see.... especially for a experienced player. The difference is again, HUGE. It's quite obvious when you are missing  a target that you should be hitting... 


I can make a hs on most players literally 500 feet away. ( I'd say that 75 percent of the time I play on the server I have the most head shots and there are players who could confirm this...)  I don't have the highest accuracy but I know how to play ET.... ( it's not rocket science) Some of these players I can't hit 2 feet away or 100 feet and sometimes when I make a hit, it's like it goes right through.  If anyone would argue that a experienced player can't tell the difference between a hit and a miss then they don't really play enough ET.... This is something a player with years should in FACT just know... It's like any other game where you practice a lot. You learn the game, you know what you're doing.... Any TRULY experienced player or one that knows what the hell they are talking about anyways should ABSOLUTELY positively know that the difference between a hit and a miss are HUGE and know absolutely positively what a hit looks like vs a miss. I know what both look like and I know when I am making a good shot and it still misses....

People don't want to admit to this problem but it is a very real issue while playing on Jaymod 2. 



Anyways,  thanks for the links and thoughts. May I suggest that you look at hitboxes and take in how much room there actually is to hit your target.... 

Edited February 15, 2021 by spectator

[-=HipKat=-]

My dude, it's all about the Adren. And not just a little bit.

[spectator]

11 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

My dude, it's all about the Adren. And not just a little bit.

I got a tip from some one that if a player is hard for you to hit to aim for the body instead of the head. I think the head has a smaller hit box but the body hit box expands into the head and has quite a far reach around the body.  I should try aiming less for the head on players like that. I find that when you're actually playing, that players have individual config files, settings, internet connections so that you have to feel them out individually.  They usually have a style how they move, most players become predictable, and they usually stick to the same classes... 

Anyways, you are a good player... and adren does effect the game. But everyone uses that shit haha.  I'll keep in mind how much it might influence their performance. Thanks.

Edited February 15, 2021 by spectator

[captnconcrete]

its a game u win some u lose some its how it is supposed to work. now this game is way old .. an if say one person lives in Estonia and another lives in say Kentucky  there will be some ping issues for sure.if u would like to play where the hitboxes are better cuz in jaymod there huge. play etpro mod. the way most medics play on jay2 they would be left spawning over an over in a scrim. i my self would love to revamp jay2 .but all the medics wouldnt show up.lol at lest the ones that camp  and only play for highest kills. worst thing to ever happen to et was doublejump.not adren. in stead of focusing on the kill. focus on the team. maps wernt made to be jumped across in 3 secs. in my opinion mappers didnt keep up with the player change over the yrs. in my perfect et. u would be limited classes. u would be forced to work as a team not just balls out kill kill kill die repeat.

 

i agree some people are hard to hit. with there straff binds and thereshitty ping. one thing ive noticed some like too do is they have a good ping.. and they think they need to set timnudge. it actually makes em laggy as hell in my view. i play on jay2 for the people best people around mods garbage in my book.lol 

 

funny u say  players become predictable. this is a tip i always share . never become too predictable.

Edited February 15, 2021 by captnconcrete

[spectator]

I'm actually a timenudger to be honest.  A perfectly timed push or prone freaks out lots of players but if you prone at the wrong time you're just a easy target. 😄 Some players I just love playing against because they move brilliantly, they will crouch, prone, jump and you're doing this epic dance with them and one of you goes down. Some players really are good. 

By the way Hotspur ( good player) hates timenudge he used to call me out on it. For whatever reason I think it helps, maybe I should try going without it.  I'm mostly vanilla settings.  My sens depends on the teams and what weapons they are using and if they are using adren. Sometimes you want something tight and controlled and sometimes you want something fast where you can whip around and change aim quickly.  I actually believe that different sensitivities are necessary depending on your opponents... Also, different players have different weaknesses... some guys I can't hit with Thompson but if I get out dual pistols ( Different story) 

I love this game, I practice often... I have no life. I've seen other no lifers have similar issues with players that are "hard to hit". I donated to the server... don't get me wrong. I like all of you and I feel bad when I chew someone out or get into it with anybody but haha some of you guys are hard to hit.... and that makes it more challenging which I guess is a good thing, right?

Thanks for your insights. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by spectator

[Letdown]

Yo Chosen, thanks for stopping by.

A few things I'd like to add if you may, as a Jay2 regular and opponent on some occasion

 

21 hours ago, spectator said:

 It's very strange when you shoot 10 players and they get hit just like you'd expect, ding ding ding... then a super medic player who is hard to hit comes along and you have him clearly in the hit zone, you click the mouse and it's like your bullets never reach him. 😄

So the topic is mostly about medics and not other classes such as a rambo engi, an angry fg42 user or a soldier hogging the almighty panzer ? They can be hit I guess.

 

21 hours ago, spectator said:

If you can't tell the difference between a hit and a miss by now then you haven't been playing enough for a game that's 20 years old...
 

Agreed.

 

21 hours ago, spectator said:

 I have to try to be nicer to these players because sometimes I get pretty annoyed by it. 

Worry not, You usually do fine but that's a good point.

We know you have a lot of passion and you play engineer or any useful class to help your team

 

21 hours ago, spectator said:

 High ACC doesn't even matter. A good player can tear it up with like 34 ACC or less... it's not a ACC thing...I've come to realize that...

I think I know who you are referring to, but it also comes with many HS, like 2HS/kill. He does a lot of damage.

I don't see any warping but that's just my opinion.

 

14 hours ago, spectator said:

The thing is that if I have full HP and I see a medic hiding in a corner healing with med packs I should the advantage.

Absolutely but seeing a medic self healing doesn't mean you should engage. Be careful. You might get ambushed and/or have to deal with his team mates. By the same token never follow a panzer retreating

 

14 hours ago, spectator said:

The thing is that they will get like 110 vs 10 ratio and no one, literally no one in the room can hit them. To make it even more real, numerous players will say "wtf" or "you can't be hit".... (Good players say it,  experienced players...) These players only go down because of law of averages, they have to die eventually... I'll be real with you, real with myself, everyone.... I can kill a medic, I can kill a good player who is a medic. ( I honestly can... but I can't kill a medic with super powers...that no one can hit....)  I can kill a medic as ANY  job function especially with FG42.... Some of these guys, you can't even hit with a FG42...( If you know anything about ET and you don't suck, you should do fine with FG42 and you should know that it has the speed and power to mess up any normal player....it's a unfair advantage....)  A good player, experienced player knows that you can still do heavy damage to a team as any class... you don't have to be a medic.
 

It's ok to say WTF Yes sometimes you don't hit at all, so when you miss you should ask yourself : what did I do wrong ? Is it only because of the "so-called" warping of my opponent. Maybe but maybe not.

On a side note, you have proven you could kill medics on many occasions, regardless of the class you are playing. You manage to land many HS. So it's all good, no ?

 

14 hours ago, spectator said:

 The hit boxes are pretty large and when you have your cursor on a target and you click there is absolutely  NO ROOM for doubt that you're hitting that target. Missing a target and hitting a target is a HUGE difference that you'd have to be blind not to see.

Yes but when you say target, you mean player model or hitboxes ? because imo these are 2 different things. Depending on what your opponent is doing (crouch, strafe, run, stand, swim....) your aim won't be the same.

In other words, when you play, you are not shooting at an opponent but at his hitboxes. Not sure if I made myself clear here lol.

I just want to be sure we are on the same page.

I agree that if you aim at the "right" spot and don't hit there is another explanation

 

 

14 hours ago, spectator said:

You can destroy a room of 10 opponents with 30 ACC or lower. This is actually quite the fact. 

To be honest I haven't seen that much. Unless the guy comes from behind and nobody heard him. Imo his chances of success to take the opponents down entering a room by shooting 30% are really low, no ? unless he is John Wick, but John doesn't shoot 30%

But I get your point.

 

14 hours ago, spectator said:

I can make a hs on most players literally 500 feet away. ( I'd say that 75 percent of the time I play on the server I have the most head shots and there are players who could confirm this...)  I don't have the highest accuracy but I know how to play ET.... ( it's not rocket science) Some of these players I can't hit 2 feet away or 100 feet and sometimes when I make a hit, it's like it goes right through. 

Absolutely, as I said before you manage to get many HS.

I told you many times I am surprised by the amount of HS you have. While speccing you, I have the feeling your aim is not steady. It's like your crosshair is all over the place. No disrespect here, just the feeling I have when I spec you. Probably because you are a high sens user and Im not. I guess it also depends on your settings.

 

14 hours ago, spectator said:

If anyone would argue that a experienced player can't tell the difference between a hit and a miss then they don't really play enough ET.... This is something a player with years should in FACT just know... It's like any other game where you practice a lot. You learn the game, you know what you're doing.... Any TRULY experienced player or one that knows what the hell they are talking about anyways should ABSOLUTELY positively know that the difference between a hit and a miss are HUGE and know absolutely positively what a hit looks like vs a miss. I know what both look like and I know when I am making a good shot and it still misses....

People don't want to admit to this problem but it is a very real issue while playing on Jaymod 2.

Does it happen only with "certain medics" or other players as well ?

Does it also happen when you play on Jay1 ? on a crowded server how is your experience ? do you feel the same way ? do you see people warp ? is your aim more effective over here ? do you get HS more easily ?

 

11 hours ago, spectator said:

I got a tip from some one that if a player is hard for you to hit to aim for the body instead of the head. I think the head has a smaller hit box but the body hit box expands into the head and has quite a far reach around the body.  I should try aiming less for the head on players like that. I find that when you're actually playing, that players have individual config files, settings, internet connections so that you have to feel them out individually.  They usually have a style how they move, most players become predictable, and they usually stick to the same classes...

When I have trouble hitting players (and not one in particular) I try to "lower" my aim : go for the chest (torso) instead of the head. 

Good point noticing how they move, so that you can kill them

 

11 hours ago, spectator said:

 Some players I just love playing against because they move brilliantly, they will crouch, prone, jump and you're doing this epic dance with them and one of you goes down.

That's the spirit and the reason you come to Jay2, right ? But in the end, it's better when the other player goes down, hehe

 

11 hours ago, spectator said:

I love this game, I practice often... . I donated to the server... don't get me wrong. I like all of you and I feel bad when I chew someone out or get into it with anybody but haha some of you guys are hard to hit.... and that makes it more challenging which I guess is a good thing, right?

Thanks for the donation : we really appreciate it.

I understand that it can be frustrating at some point not to be able to hit like you want.

You have said it all : if a player is hard to hit, you will come back and figure out how to take him down... and you will 👍

Anyway, you always say in chat : "this guy can be killed".

 

........ I have to stop because the system won't let me quote you anymore ! lol jk.

See you on the battlefield.

 

[-=HipKat=-]

15 hours ago, spectator said:

I got a tip from some one that if a player is hard for you to hit to aim for the body instead of the head. I think the head has a smaller hit box but the body hit box expands into the head and has quite a far reach around the body.  I should try aiming less for the head on players like that. I find that when you're actually playing, that players have individual config files, settings, internet connections so that you have to feel them out individually.  They usually have a style how they move, most players become predictable, and they usually stick to the same classes... 

Anyways, you are a good player... and adren does effect the game. But everyone uses that shit haha.  I'll keep in mind how much it might influence their performance. Thanks.

I don't use Adren and thx for the compliment! If you hit someone in the body that's using Adren, it'll take more shots to get the kill, so you WANT those headshots. Even on Adren 3 Headshots is a kill, brother!

[SuperRetardo]

Hey Ya'll....some of you might have seen me on the jaymod server as =KT=SuperRetardo.   I can be a bit ornery at times - but thats because I'm old.   

The problem with crap hit detection can usually be resolved by a restart of the server (if not a full reboot) once every 7-10 days.   

 

It has plagued nearly EVERY idTech 3 based game from Quake 3 to RTCW and ET, the Star Trek games, the Jedi Knight games and Soldier of Fortune 2. where antilag is implemented.    It even happens with the open-source engines of ioQuake3 and ETL.   It happens with UrbanTerror too.  It comes down to memory management and the fact that the server code (game and engine) were basically not written to run months on end.   Call it "Unlagged," "Antilag," lag compensation or "Antiwarp," what happens with antilag is that the server is making a judgement call of your shot based on what it thinks you saw (based on the snapshots it sent you).   ( Thats why you feel like you get shot around corners too btw.)     If it takes too long, as it can when the server has been up for over 10 days,  the frame and shot can be ignored, resulting in a "miss."   

 

That's the biggest thing that can effect it honestly.   Numerous threads were spawned in the ETPro, NoQuarter and ETPub forums over the years - debating ad nauseum the merits of ET Pro's "Antiwarp", stock ET Antilag, tweked NoQ/ETPub antilag and when "Unlagged" from Quake 3 got mentioned.   It never got perfectly solved and it never will.  You can read the thread for issues for ET Legacy - it's present there too.   Restart/Reboot server once a week, should alleviate a lot of frustrations. 

 

[kYmo]

5 hours ago, SuperRetardo said:

Hey Ya'll....some of you might have seen me on the jaymod server as =KT=SuperRetardo.   I can be a bit ornery at times - but thats because I'm old.   

The problem with crap hit detection can usually be resolved by a restart of the server (if not a full reboot) once every 7-10 days.   

 

It has plagued nearly EVERY idTech 3 based game from Quake 3 to RTCW and ET, the Star Trek games, the Jedi Knight games and Soldier of Fortune 2. where antilag is implemented.    It even happens with the open-source engines of ioQuake3 and ETL.   It happens with UrbanTerror too.  It comes down to memory management and the fact that the server code (game and engine) were basically not written to run months on end.   Call it "Unlagged," "Antilag," lag compensation or "Antiwarp," what happens with antilag is that the server is making a judgement call of your shot based on what it thinks you saw (based on the snapshots it sent you).   ( Thats why you feel like you get shot around corners too btw.)     If it takes too long, as it can when the server has been up for over 10 days,  the frame and shot can be ignored, resulting in a "miss."   

 

That's the biggest thing that can effect it honestly.   Numerous threads were spawned in the ETPro, NoQuarter and ETPub forums over the years - debating ad nauseum the merits of ET Pro's "Antiwarp", stock ET Antilag, tweked NoQ/ETPub antilag and when "Unlagged" from Quake 3 got mentioned.   It never got perfectly solved and it never will.  You can read the thread for issues for ET Legacy - it's present there too.   Restart/Reboot server once a week, should alleviate a lot of frustrations. 

 

@Fighter @Nenich @Chef<3 I knew this wasn't just adrenaline when you aim exactly the same way on bots then vs a certain player and the headshots dont register when you know for 100% from experience it should be a headshot.

Edited February 16, 2021 by kYmo

[captnconcrete]

10 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

I don't use Adren and thx for the compliment! If you hit someone in the body that's using Adren, it'll take more shots to get the kill, so you WANT those headshots. Even on Adren 3 Headshots is a kill, brother!

nope takes 4 on dren. pretty sure ..

on restarting server i am also pretty sure jay2 gets restarted once maybe even twice a week ill keep a eye on this more. cuz i notice this too some people just unhit. i always chlked it up too them being in europe me being in middle of usa. its!uptime.

 

18 points damage in a body shot, 40 with a headshot if the enemy has a helmet, and 50 if he does not. adren means half damage and full sprint for 10sec.

Edited February 16, 2021 by captnconcrete

[Betrayal]

UGH.. this topic.. I just wanna say that i do believe most of it is movement and they do have very good aim.. not saying in all cases but in most the people who are getting blamed for hard to hit or kill and are just straight up destroying the server usually came from a decent ETPRO background such as myself getting blamed for this. NOT saying all cases but most from what i have seen. Most of the time when i hear about on server i spec the one doing the blame first and i usually see them not aiming very well at all then just raging in main saying didnt get one hit when i clearly can see there not aiming.  And yes adren helps make this factor even worse. idk just my two cents. there are many factors to this but this is just what i have noticed the most. yes sometimes maybe they did get cheated out of the kill what do you expect tho this game is how old now. just learn to enjoy it for what it is!!

[-=HipKat=-]

5 hours ago, Betrayal said:

UGH.. this topic.. I just wanna say that i do believe most of it is movement and they do have very good aim.. not saying in all cases but in most the people who are getting blamed for hard to hit or kill and are just straight up destroying the server usually came from a decent ETPRO background such as myself getting blamed for this. NOT saying all cases but most from what i have seen. Most of the time when i hear about on server i spec the one doing the blame first and i usually see them not aiming very well at all then just raging in main saying didnt get one hit when i clearly can see there not aiming.  And yes adren helps make this factor even worse. idk just my two cents. there are many factors to this but this is just what i have noticed the most. yes sometimes maybe they did get cheated out of the kill what do you expect tho this game is how old now. just learn to enjoy it for what it is!!

No doubt! There are far greater things to worry about