ET Server Suggestion How to get fair teams / to shuffle or not to shuffle.. thats the question..

[r3wind3r]

Check out that poll. The shuffle thing has been discussed a lot and the results will be interesting. Share your opinions in this thread.

 

I personally dont like autoshuffle since it appears randomly and shuffles teams that can be fair already and can split up teams that are having a good teamplay. People choose axis or allies because they want this so they shouldnt get switched if its not necessary.

If teams are unfair everybody will understand that its necessary to change it and accept being switched. Thats why i'd go for a democratic vote which can be stopped on abuse with !cancelvote command by any admin as usual.

I also think it would be a good idea to give the shuffle command to level 12/14 admins since there are often no level 15+ admins online. Abusers will be teached/warned/degraded.

Putting a good player to the losing team often helps but sometimes its just a whole team not playing good together and a shuffle is the better option.

Edited April 30, 2018 by r3wind3r

[CheepHeep]

Yay! Another topic on uneven teams!

 

With regards to:

 

1. I'd say shuffle is at the discretion of level 15+ admins that have been entrusted with it. Thats not to say that level 11 to 14 can't recommend or ask for it but usually at level 15, they have enough experience and time as an admin to know when its suitable. Autoshuffle is implemented, i assume, to sort out unfair teams if it so happens that no admin with !shuffle is around.

 

2. I'd pick neither. There should be an option saying. "Shuffle is needed occasionally". I wouldn't rule it out completely but at the same time i wouldnt recommend resorting to it all the time and i wouldnt make it a habit using it because its the easy way to go. It can easily upset players. Asking first should be instinct.

 

From my experience, I'd only recommend using shuffle if the teams are incredibly uneven (eg. 11v17) etc or if i notice that a team has a lot of high skilled players compared to the other (Admins will know who they are on their home servers ) and I can foresee it leading to a bad game or if the previous map had been dominated by a specific team. Then again, only during warmup would i use a shuffle or request one.

 

That being said, ask first to see who responds, its a good way to see who to keep an eye on to possibly recruit as well. Also, instinctively moving the highest skilled player on the server isn't always the best way to go and it can probably upset him because it may happen to him a lot because of it. Instead, scan the map. If a team can barely get out of spawn then its probably because they are being dominated by a wave of skilled players in which case asking a couple would do the trick. If a team isn't progressing, check to see if they have engis or "good" engis aka objective players. If they don't you could possibly ask a player that you know is a good or focused objective player. 

 

Honestly, it just depends on the situation in my eyes. Do what you think is best not whats easiest.

[-=HipKat=-]

This is the scenario that makes me crazy:

 

Teams are even, score are even. 

New player joins Allies.

2 players from Axis quit.

Someone says to even teams in Main Chat.

Some admin says teams are fine, check scores...... Never realizing those even scores are form when teams were even players

[r3wind3r]

@CheepHeep poll edited-> shuffle occasionally ->remove autoshuffle

autoshuffle is worse than any admins decision can be imo and i think it should be replaced by the shuffle vote.

 

Edited April 30, 2018 by r3wind3r

[Xernicus]

Little bit tired of discussing shuffle.... There's several aspects to it.

First and second (in importance):
-Players on (based on exp)
-The map being played
-Duration of map also has an impact.

Autoshuffle can be overzealous. So voting to keep it as-is for silEnT servers. That seems to work well.

I would not change lvl requirement for shuffle. Why? It's too easy to make mistakes and kill the server. I've been there and done that- even as lvl 15. Level 15 is based on a few aspects. Command usage, reports and how truthful you are, time you've been here, etc. It's well balanced- whether you believe it or not. The only way it could be more perfect is if it were only given to those 16+ with A-Z+ cmd knowledge and A-Z knowledge of our mission. So 15+ is fine.
Not everyone has the same experience. Some may be able to use it better than others. If we think you'll be able to handle it well before others, trust me-- we pay attention and you'll get it. Just keep proving yourself.
 

[Dest!Ny]

autoshuffle is fine. Surely it doesnt produce the most optimal solution, however not a single option does. I think on HC/Silent the autoshuffle happens every 3 maps (?) and that is perfectly fine for keeping the teams nice and fresh.

 

Shuffle definitely shouldnt be accesible by voting because it takes a bit of understanding to realise when teams are uneven, why teams are uneven, how teams will be more even, etc etc. Same goes for lvl 12/14 admins, most admins wont have a good clue as to when he or she should shuffle, this is proven by looking at how lvl 12/14 admins tend to handle !putteam as well. Once these adins get a hang of how to putteam properly they are already making good progress towards a promotion (the way I see it) and therefore shouldnt need to worry.

 

"Put good players the the losing side manually": Unfortunately it isnt always that easy. On jaymod, where I have spent my last couple of months I have noticed that the problem doesntsolely come from uneven teams but also from tunnel vision. If teams were uneven for a while until a change happens the losing side for some reason decided that they "gave up". Meaning that eventhough an admin might have made the perfect move as to who should be put to the losing side teams might still appear to be uneven due to the one side playing even more like jackasses compared to how they usually play, whilest the previously winning side is still full of confidense making them play better. In my opinion this issue isnt further tacklable aside from waiting for the next map so a mental reset will occur. All in all if people are reasonless enough to create a mental block by losing in a videogame than no further help can be given LOL

[Xernicus]

2 minutes ago, Dest!Ny said:

autoshuffle is fine. Surely it doesnt produce the most optimal solution, however not a single option does. I think on HC/Silent the autoshuffle happens every 3 maps (?) and that is perfectly fine for keeping the teams nice and fresh.

 

Shuffle definitely shouldnt be accesible by voting because it takes a bit of understanding to realise when teams are uneven, why teams are uneven, how teams will be more even, etc etc. Same goes for lvl 12/14 admins, most admins wont have a good clue as to when he or she should shuffle, this is proven by looking at how lvl 12/14 admins tend to handle !putteam as well. Once these adins get a hang of how to putteam properly they are already making good progress towards a promotion (the way I see it) and therefore shouldnt need to worry.

 

"Put good players the the losing side manually": Unfortunately it isnt always that easy. On jaymod, where I have spent my last couple of months I have noticed that the problem doesntsolely come from uneven teams but also from tunnel vision. If teams were uneven for a while until a change happens the losing side for some reason decided that they "gave up". Meaning that eventhough an admin might have made the perfect move as to who should be put to the losing side teams might still appear to be uneven due to the one side playing even more like jackasses compared to how they usually play, whilest the previously winning side is still full of confidense making them play better. In my opinion this issue isnt further tacklable aside from waiting for the next map so a mental reset will occur. All in all if people are reasonless enough to create a mental block by losing in a videogame than no further help can be given LOL

Damn, good response. Seriously. You got it 100%.

[m00bz]

Vote for 12+ admins who can shuffle. 
Im sure it wil take some time to handle perfectly but when that is the theams will be more even and more fun.

Most of the time is Axis to strong or Allied who complete the map to fast.

[*Kiba*]

i think this one is up there  in the air  no one going to be really happy with one or the other  i think it should be a vote deal or a admins  decision to make  the big problem i see with this is that we don't always have high level admins on when teams really do need a shuffle  i really wish we could get the silent commands back so we don't have  players asking why we do this why we do that all the time  rallying up the trolls making thing  worse  i think that would deal with lot of the big  troublemakers we have on servers 

 

 

we us to be able to  us our commands in fireteam but i think there was a problem in the past with admins abusing it that was the reason it was removed but i don't see why we can't  have our  commands being done in admin chat so there no way any abuse can be done i know jaymod does not have a adminchat like we do on sil and our pub servers do 

[Vanaraud]

I see the shuffle being given on higher admin level when admin levels are based on recruiting count is becoming more and more irrelevant imho.

 

@HIpkat it goes basis by basis and is off topic here.

 

Auto shuffle is a good thing- teams get unfair by the time and sometimes there are no admins around at all.

 

Shuffle is a good thing- sometimes teams get so messed up that untangling would take too much time and effort.

 

!putteam is a way to go most of the times, even when admin could switch sides, it´s best to consider !putteam before unbalancing teams even more by FA switching sides itself...

 

Can´t really vote for anything as all goes basis by basis and can´t choose a preferred method which would work all the time.

 

+1 for silent commands

Edited June 2, 2018 by Vanaraud

[daredevil]

On 5/31/2018 at 7:24 AM, m00bz said:

Vote for 12+ admins who can shuffle. 
Im sure it wil take some time to handle perfectly but when that is the theams will be more even and more fun.

Most of the time is Axis to strong or Allied who complete the map to fast.

 

Had that and some new admins shuffle mid map, map end, 2 mins before map end. Admin usage ability comes with experience and level 12 is new member. If I do that, matter of time, players will complain, OMG '=F|A= admins' shuffling whenever they like. 

 

 

[Gengis]

Additionnal comment :

Now i shuffle only if absolutely required because the result is uncertain and the ppl just dont like it.

So it is not that usefull to have it IMO.

 

Gengis

[r3wind3r]

The good players being put actually don't like to be forced to other team either.

 

The best situation is if you have good players who don't mind to change to the losing team on their own.

 

imo the advantage of a shuffle is that it's possible to also improve teamplay when the constellation of a team is just bad (all same class for example). Therefore its not enough to just swap 1 or 2 players.

 

The shuffle by vote (and optional veto by admins on nonsense votes/vote spam) would be most democratic and nobody could complain about a bad admin-decision.

[Guest]

I agree, administrators should have the ability to create a callvote shuffleteams, instead of shuffle without a vote, it would be at least democratic, with an odd minimum vote

 

 

 

 

P.S.  

 

1001 posts <----- I would like my prize