PHNTM Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 This topic is for further discussion on the subject of hard to hit players on Jay2 as I don't think we have yet pinned down exactly what makes some players seemingly unhittable. I think we should structure this debate by providing a few base points as per previously discussed, this will hopefully provide continuity to the debate. We shall take the points below as fundamentally true: - No player is invulnerable to damage; - The potential for damage exchange is equal for both sides; - For reasons yet unknown some players are unhittable or invulnerable to damage. Please feel free to share your thoughts on this matter. 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators daredevil Posted March 26, 2021 Administrators Share Posted March 26, 2021 Their are players who always think, when they die, someone else is unhittable. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliveirapt Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 theres one thing for that to happen internet all depends quality connection and how far people live from the server 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLade. Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Always keeping your movement in mind is key, if you’re able to move in certain patterns while getting in gunfights you’re able to make yourself almost unhittable, especially on Jay2 with the adren. I see lots of players saving their stamina for these particular scenarios to avoid being hit (try it - it really works especially in 1v2 scenarios) Really being able to out move people will save your ass especially if you’re not the greatest aimer. The less predictable your movement is the more you’ll throw them off when they’re trying to track you in gunfights. Maybe I should make a tutorial 😛 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captnconcrete Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) never mind!! there is a locked thread on this already ??? Edited March 26, 2021 by captnconcrete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum VIP -=HipKat=- Posted March 27, 2021 Platinum VIP Share Posted March 27, 2021 I just want you guys to consider that there are people who think that YOU'RE the hard to hit player. Last night, I was completely dominating Falcon. I don't think he had a single kill on me and it dawned on me that to him, I'm like EL is to me. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) Remember that it's just an idea, it's subjective.. It's a experience. Not everyone is going to have the same experience, and no one can create or control other people's experience. There could be any number of factors involved here, internet, skill level, sticky keyboard... The problem here is that this is not a consistent issue between players. It's only a select few players that perform this seemingly un-natural feat... I could name them on hand... Everyone is entitled to their feelings, frustrations, opinions... I get it that some people don't want to discuss it and some don't agree with others. It gets really nasty fast, when you bring this subject up. I think that some people should avoid this subject, and I think that other players who think there is another explanation should continue to try to enlighten those who struggle with this "issue"... I have heard a few reasonable theories, one simply being that anti-lag has strange effects on the gaming experience. Of course many theories are simply dismissive, and give alternate explanations to what players are experiencing. To be fair, if someone were to be hard to hit, they might not realize that they are doing anything to be hard to hit. Who is to say that a experienced player, who aims well, moves well would have any idea that they are hard to hit? How could anyone say that it was intentional? Trying to convince players with years of experience, skill, talent that "hard to hit" is a real thing, could just end up in the sort of ridicule I've received. So, I am not saying that it's absolutely a real thing, I'm saying that in my experience I have experienced it. It does seem rather convincing, un-natural sometimes, but I'm not going to speak for everyone. This is something I've struggled with, and I have seen others struggle as well... I understand that everyone is at different skill levels and that some people just need to practice more. If a player says that you are hard to hit, then who is to say that it's not true for them? Maybe you move better, maybe they don't know that the hitboxes change with movement, maybe they don't crouch.... maybe they have lag...maybe their keyboard has food in it. 😄 Who knows? I think that it's fair to say that there are many less than insidious reasons why a player may be hard to hit. My internet speed is 53 mbps... In game I have up to 54 ping, which isn't devastating... In demo viewer, I have reviewed many demos of players who face the same frustration, as well as recorded demos myself facing it. What seems un-natural is that you can kill 4 medics in a server, who do alright... and you approach them all the same, your aim is the same, your movement is the same, then there's that one guy, you do the same exact thing for that one guy... but somehow, regardless of himself appearing to do NOTHING remarkably different than the other 4 medics.... he doesn't take a hit, he doesn't go down... (This can lead to frustration and hard to hit contemplation....) Sometimes not only do they avoid a hit, but they destroy you so bad that it just seems un-natural... If it's movement, then why are players so convinced? You can tell when someone gets a good one on you. You can tell when someone crouches, when someone jumps to the left... You can tell a good shot. But you can also spot something that just doesn't look natural to you...especially if you're playing consistent that night, you're beating down players then you run into someone that you just can't get a handle on... You can't figure them out... Phantom for instance, a strong player, has a high acc, gets a good ratio... but he is hittable. ( Not a knock on you...) He moves well, he shoots well, and it's strange when you can frag with players as such but then you run into that one guy that just doesn't take any of it and he seems to serve up the same kind of game as everyone else. You can SEE the player you're facing on your screen. You can review the demos, you can study their movement, you can spec them... Quite often you don't see anything spectacular or enlightening...which just leads you to believe that it's some sort of mystery. 😄 Is it something subtle? Is it a problem on your end? You don't know... You spend hours playing with other players and you see how they move on your screen and you move with them, you get some good frags in, then there's that one guy who has transcended you in every way imaginable. It's like entering into the matrix for a second... It's incredible... It makes you wonder what the inconsistency is and why there is such a large gap between you and that player between EVERYONE else... because it really is only a handful of players... Are some players just that GOOD and AMAZING and SUPER that they can destroy everyone and to other players they cry "I can't even hit you!"? You must be honest though and recognize that sometimes other players CAN hit players that you have trouble with... (But the kicker is that you can hit THOSE players who can hit them and that just drives you crazy!) So, what's going on here? Or some players just that amazing? If that's case, we have a lot to learn ourselves, and quite possibly from them.... Either way, this is something that can be reviewed, I have hours of footage... ( But it would be a pain to go through all that...edit the relevant parts...) I imagine that you can take demos yourself or spec other players and record demos to review. You can tell when a player is having a hard time hitting someone because it's inconsistent...if you watch them frag with other players chances are that you're going to see a VAST difference between what they are accomplishing with everyone else vs that "difficult target".... People will always be convinced one way or the other. So, you can get angry, insult one another or just let it be. Because some will swear forever that nothing exists to make a player hard to hit other than skill and other players will cry that it exists... Either way, it's not something that will ever be proven/ disproven in a way that satisfies everyone... This thread is probably beating another dead horse... haha Edited March 31, 2021 by spectator 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElEl Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 7 hours ago, spectator said: It's only a select few players that perform this seemingly un-natural feat... I could name them on hand... Name them. 7 hours ago, spectator said: Everyone is entitled to their feelings, frustrations, opinions... What you're not entitled to is CONSTANTLY bringing stuff like this up on the server every time you die to someone you think is 'hard to hit'. This is the problem I have with you and why I jump on you about this every time you bring it up. Quote 11. Don't keep fighting with other players on the server and don’t keep bitching at other players on a continuous basis. You may be muted or kicked depending on what our admins feel is right. 7 hours ago, spectator said: but somehow, regardless of himself appearing to do NOTHING remarkably different than the other 4 medics.... he doesn't take a hit, he doesn't go down... Ah yes, I forgot you were an expert at analysing player's skill levels and gameplay. Why do you think that you can just tell they're not doing anything different and dismiss every explanation given to you? I think it takes a massive amount of ego to refuse the idea that these people are just better than you at something without having to invent some story. I'm fully aware there are people that are just better than me at this game, who aim better, whatever, but this 'hard to hit' nonsense needs to stop. Just play better or get over it. And by over it I mean not writing a novel's worth of speculation on the forums. I've put all of your lengthy replies into a word counter and got this: You've written ~10,000 words on this situation, do you not think this is a bit much? I recommend investing all of this energy you have into a hobby like learning an instrument or something. 7 hours ago, spectator said: If it's movement, then why are players so convinced? You can tell when someone gets a good one on you. You're basing this off of other bad players' opinions. Do you think they have any idea how top level pros play or why they're better? Dismissing practice and time investment for the people you accuse of stuff like this is straight up ignorance. People are better than you because they've invested the time to get better. That's it. 7 hours ago, spectator said: Phantom for instance, a strong player, has a high acc, gets a good ratio... but he is hittable. You put Phantom up on this pedestal meanwhile you constantly bash on other players that you are just not good against by using this 'hard to hit' excuse. "You can only kill me because I can't hit you because of game stuff, but I don't know what the game stuff is and have rejected every explanation these players have offered me! It's not that I'm bad at the game, it's that they're cheating somehow!" 7 hours ago, spectator said: Either way, this is something that can be reviewed, I have hours of footage... You're so caught up in this theory that you've wasted hours of your time trying to prove something that doesn't exist instead of enjoying the game. I honestly think that's pretty sad. ET isn't going to be around forever so you might as well make the most of it while it's still got a playerbase. I record every game I play with cg_autoaction so if you want to waste more of your time I can send you those demos too. I've lost count of how many times I've offered you explanations - how many times I've given you advice about movement, aiming, general tactics etc. and yet I still see you bringing this bullshit to the server and forums. If it was just me you were dismissing it would be a lot less of a problem, but bLade in this same thread has repeated things I've said to you and I know he's not the only one who was tried to help you understand why you get rolled by players who are better than you. Even I get destroyed against some players but I look at what I can do better, try to change my approach and move on. That's what you need to start doing. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum VIP -=HipKat=- Posted March 31, 2021 Platinum VIP Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, ElEl said: Name them. He doesn't want people to know I pwn his ass on a regular basis.... @spectator Many times, I've wished someone who was all knowing could sit at my computer and say "Dude, you need to change this, adjust that and THAT'S what's stopping you from being elite" but truth is., all this debate comes down to 1 thing, some people are just better than others. I'd be more ready to talk about players that always seem to appear from nowhere behind you... On 3/27/2021 at 9:54 AM, -=HipKat=- said: I just want you guys to consider that there are people who think that YOU'RE the hard to hit player. Last night, I was completely dominating Falcon. I don't think he had a single kill on me and it dawned on me that to him, I'm like EL is to me. And why do people think this is funny??? Edited March 31, 2021 by -=HipKat=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHNTM Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) I don't know, I mean, Spectator has some points which I reckon are worthy of a healthy debate and discussion. We need to understand more. @spectator What's the refresh rate of your monitor? Also, do you play with a wired or wireless mouse? Edited March 31, 2021 by PHNTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted March 31, 2021 Share Posted March 31, 2021 (edited) It's not fair to try to discredit people with statements they never made.... I've listened to feedback. I didn't create this thread... I didn't say I was the best... I never claimed anyone wasn't good... I'm not in charge now whether or not this conversation stays open...Part of me worries that it's here just to stir things up, cause more heart ache between players... If it remains a mature conversation, that's fine...but some players are still going to vent, react rather than respond, as hard as they try to keep this rational and fair... Sometimes people will be wrong about something, they will make mistakes, they will be stubborn, or convinced of their own opinion of something. It can take years to change someone's mind about something... I hope you understand it's not personal...it's a online video game... I feel like we've hardly gotten to know each other and this "issue" has really made the server a whole lot less fun. I'm not against playing with people, one on one or listening to feedback... It's just hard for me to understand the "advice"... I appreciate all the times players reached out...They say that a smart man learns from the mistakes of others, but life doesn't usually work that way...and you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink it. No matter how much pro advice people give you, it's not going to magically make you a better player over night or answer all your questions about the game, about other players. Even if you heed advice, you got to stick to practicing...and after hours of playing, convincing yourself that you're doing everything right, it can be frustrating to get destroyed sometimes... It's like this, you could explain to a 4 year old all day long how to change a bulb, but it takes time, growth, experience to change even a light bulb... ( Maybe not the best example but does the point get across?) If you insisted that a 4 year old changed a light bulb, told them how to do it, and they complained about the task, in spite of your efforts... you'd find that frustration just isn't something they can move on from instantly, and "get it".... I'm sure some players have meant well, tried to help. That's fantastic... I'm not saying that you have to take me seriously, you can if you want to... ET is a passionate game and people fight on there, talk shit... It can be friendly... I have told other players GG. I have complemented other players... I respect a few players there.... _________________Speaking of babble, are you sure it's worth counting my words on any subject? :D____________________________________ Maybe you're more mature than me, a bigger person, or are aware of how to improve upon yourself as a player and are aware how someone could destroy you in a server.... Maybe you realize there's more to learn that they could have learned... For many players, they have tried learning more, tried practicing and when they get destroyed like that...they don't come to that realization... I'm not sure it's a question of ego... it's a 20 year old online video game. This isn't pole vaulting or the olympics... 😄 People just feel like it can't be that complicated, that there can't be some hidden pro player occult knowledge that makes them exceed not just you but every other player.... Again it's like a child trying to grasp something that just alludes them, something they just can't understand... Or it's like a physicist trying to explain something "almost alien" in nature to say... a car mechanic... Some players may NEVER get it...not everyone becomes a GREAT player or learns how to destroy the entire server. It just doesn't happen, no matter who is in your corner.... Maybe some people just lack that skill. I believe in my actual thread that I admitted that I wasn't meant to be a great player maybe. Since you've counted my ever word, perhaps you have seen that post and have seen the many times I've complemented other players , or have said that other players had real skill... (Honestly, you're not always there to see it... lol) ______________________________________________________________________________Are you really really sure it's worth counting my words?___________________________________ Look, I never claimed that El or anyone else was a bad player. I never said anyone cheated or didn't practice. I have already admitted several times that some players are better on the server. I'd like to think some have noticed. Phantom being one of them, it's not fair to dismiss that. I've said it about a few players. It's not fair to only focus on my complaining, frustration ( even if it outweighs my "praise").... There are some good players there. There are some players that I can't hit....So, I feel... I never personally attacked those players ( recently) and I'm not going to now, unless we start fighting... No, I'm not going to out them... I never claimed not to talk a lot on the server...about pretty much everything. Sometimes players share what they had for lunch, it's inviting sometimes to babble... it's friendly sometimes, is that so bad? The problem is that I whine sometimes which is uninvited but sometimes the server welcomes conversation.... Some people babble, at work I'm friendly with everyone, I say good morning, I ask everyone how their day was... and believe it or not, but I'm very positive and kind.... Anyone who actually plays on the server, knows that I never shut up there... about anything. I used to babble about other things there... Phantom, I appreciate your effort here but I'm afraid that it might not be worth it. I have a wired mouse... 60 HZ refresh rate. LOL, I would swear on a stack on bibles in court that I have names. But, I'm not going to call people out here, drag them through the mud. It's not my style... and I don't think that it's going to make this forum/ community more enjoyable. It's a rule to respect one another on the server as players, as people. If you go around starting things between people, it just ends ugly. These are not bad players, I won't just slate them on the forums in public, take that however you want to... Because not everyone believes this problem exists and those are my names... I would swear before God and the entire nation that the reason I won't give up names is because I don't want to cause drama and more tension between players. 😄 Not to take it too seriously... If you really want names you can try pming me for them... But, I'm not motivated to spread around people's names in the dirt, that's just wrong... So, even with a PM I probably won't just give it up... I know how that makes me look, and I said I could name them... but I never said I wanted to spread around their names, call them out... ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I already walked away once, please remember that... my thread is closed, I am not behind this one... I'm sorry if commenting has put me in a bad spot here... I already put this aside once. The other thread was closed. The fact that it got over 1000 views might be why someone would want to start another.... ( JS....) It's awfully big of you El to admit that some players challenge you too...I'm not here to fight. I'm not here to educate people... I'm not here to tell you skill levels. It's been subjective all along. I share my own opinion, experience... Sometimes I wish there was a fair way to convey that... I've played with players that I felt were good. Actually, I doubt Phantom is the ONLY player I complemented in my thread before it was closed... Even if you were to spec me personally, the players I struggle with, I can't be entirely sure that you're seeing what I am, with my monitor, my internet connection... I really don't think this can go anywhere... This can not become absolutely fair because you're not in my computer chair, playing with my settings, config file, monitor, internet connection.... you don't see my background processes.... I mean...is this really worth getting into?Like you said, it's just a game... I can't convince anyone else of my experience, I can't even share that experience truthfully because no matter what I say, do, show you... you can't possibly have my experience here... I'd love to invite you over to my house, plop you in my chair, change nothing and tell you to go at it... But that's not going to happen... I think this has ran it's course, again... Edited March 31, 2021 by spectator 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHNTM Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 @spectator do you, by any chance, know someone who has a 144hz monitor so that you could give it a try and see if you feel any difference? I say this because playing on a 60hz or a 144hz monitor is like night and day and a higher refresh rate allows you see and track your enemies a lot more clearly, specially whenever reaction speed and precision are key. You picture won't be as blurry and you'll be able to better identify your opponent and correct your aim. The key is to get the first shot and always ignore the damage kick, keep your aim steady and react as quickly as you can to your opponent's movement, also try and play with /m_pitch 0.0159, see if that helps you be more precise. A lot of times when you get damage it's far too tempting to try and adjust the aim when it seems your crosshair is no longer be pointing at your target. Also, try and play with a big crosshair, it helps a lot sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Well, you know I spend on my computer stuff. I'll remember this and maybe buy one. Maybe not right away... 😄 Had some good fights with you today by the way. Delord, lots of good players on the server... I forget all their names though... Thanks for the tips. I will try them. I'm glad that your thread didn't start another hell fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum VIP -=HipKat=- Posted April 1, 2021 Platinum VIP Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, PHNTM said: A lot of times when you get damage it's far too tempting to try and adjust the aim when it seems your crosshair is no longer be pointing at your target. This is what kills me. I often get the first hit(s) and end up losing the fight because the return fire "feels" like it's knocking my aim off. BTW, those monitors ain't cheap... Edited April 1, 2021 by -=HipKat=- 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectator Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 I know so I won't run out to buy one right away. 😄 Around 200 dollars... sort of a lot just to satisfy my curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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