ET /Scores

[Snuffs99]

49 minutes ago, daredevil said:

Does it say anything? To me XP is dumbest mistake in ET - as useless as petroleum is for Horse! 

To be fair XP did have a function and made sense when ET was first released as it allowed players to gain extra awards based on said XP, plus all servers at release used pro mod.

Because XP reset on each match or after a campaign it did make sense on Pro servers.......However once the various mods and XP save servers came along then yeah it did became pointless once a player hit the top awards of each category. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Snuffs99

[daredevil]

33 minutes ago, Snuffs99 said:

To be fair XP did have a function and made sense when ET was first released as it allowed players to gain extra awards based on said XP, plus all servers at release used pro mod.

Because XP reset on each match or after a campaign it did make sense on Pro servers.......However once the various mods and XP save servers came along then yeah it did became pointless once a player hit the top awards of each category. 

Even for that how would you rate skills? XP was player award but then they integrated it in score board which was collective way to show skills from all players.  On top they had commands to actually shuffle based on that - ex -  vote_allow_shuffleteamsxp - that's from ETMain and in core engine. 

 

XP in the sense of player award for their progress is still kind of Ok but collectively for all players was really bad implementation. The whole implementation should be done based on session based so if any good having high KR or KD sucks today, it gets factored in. 

 

In the silent mod we have plan to change it i.e. to reset KR/KD daily without full stats reset. May be in next version once we get chance. So stats padding will not help when it comes shuffle. While their is no perfect system and can never be but XP is just worst of all. 

[Snuffs99]

2 minutes ago, daredevil said:

Even for that how would you rate skills? XP was player award but then they integrated it in score board which was collective way to show skills from all players.  On top they had commands to actually shuffle based on that - ex -  vote_allow_shuffleteamsxp - that's from ETMain and in core engine. 

 

XP in the sense of player award for their progress is still kind of Ok but collectively for all players was really bad implementation. The whole implementation should be done based on session based so if any good having high KR or KD sucks today, it gets factored in. 

 

In the silent mod we have plan to change it i.e. to reset KR/KD daily without full stats reset. May in next version once we get chance. So stats padding will not help when it comes shuffle. While their is no perfect system and can never be but XP is just worst of all. 

Yeah i see what your saying, XP on pro servers though imho was more geared towards gaining awards than fixing unbalanced teams, ETPro was really designed as a team based game where groups of friends would go 6 vs 6 etc against other groups of friends or clans where the need to shuffle using XP as a base was never really the point in XP.

 

Like you have mentioned, on silent you have slightly better ways to tell how good players are and what not with KR/KD/efficiency etc etc to use as better guides to fairer and more even shuffles, unfortunately though i don't think the original ET devs ever thought for a second ET would last as long as it has with as many different mods as there now are. 

[Aniky]

Im pretty sure Hip, that majority of admins and even a lot of regulars often check scores to see the results and fairness of teams, i even made tutorial back at past for new fresh admins here to use more often scores over number of players per team to determinate equality of teams, as u can have two above average guys in one team and even if that team is down by 2 or 3 players, they will still dominate the hell out of them since those two guys will do the work of 5 or 6 normal average players. Experienced players can determinate if teams re even or not just by the flow of game without even pressing tab or checking scores, simply by seeing how both teams re handling on map and if axis are able to set up some pressure on defence or re just getting stomped up each spawn. 

 

There is always debate on how to best determinate equality between both teams and i would still say knowing regulars there and using scores would be by fast best way to quicky see the status of skills in each team. There are some maps where axis will obviously have more kills over allies simply because of mapping and easier holding positions that will sometimes make allies die more to complete certain objective but wont neccesary mean that the teams re uneven.

[-=HipKat=-]

21 hours ago, daredevil said:

 

Nice argument ending when you suggest something utterly stupid and if other people counter it with their logic or throughts, you call us like we are uptight with message 'God forbid'. 

 

We didn't stop you from suggesting and even I give explanation but that fact is you are not able to consider that your suggestion/idea was not good and hence throw-back with God forbid opening words. 

 

If suggesting something is your right then you should also except the answers given by others. 

 

 

That was specifically in response to the wawawawawawa comment. And I didn't even make any suggestions. I compared using /scores as a way to balance teams to other team competitions and how it doesn't make sense to me. I never said "we should stop using scores to even teams". Don't put words in my mouth

[-=HipKat=-]

10 hours ago, Aniky said:

Im pretty sure Hip, that majority of admins and even a lot of regulars often check scores to see the results and fairness of teams, i even made tutorial back at past for new fresh admins here to use more often scores over number of players per team to determinate equality of teams, as u can have two above average guys in one team and even if that team is down by 2 or 3 players, they will still dominate the hell out of them since those two guys will do the work of 5 or 6 normal average players. Experienced players can determinate if teams re even or not just by the flow of game without even pressing tab or checking scores, simply by seeing how both teams re handling on map and if axis are able to set up some pressure on defence or re just getting stomped up each spawn. 

 

There is always debate on how to best determinate equality between both teams and i would still say knowing regulars there and using scores would be by fast best way to quicky see the status of skills in each team. There are some maps where axis will obviously have more kills over allies simply because of mapping and easier holding positions that will sometimes make allies die more to complete certain objective but wont neccesary mean that the teams re uneven.

Best reply! Well said and without criticizing!

[CheepHeep]

7 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

I never said "we should stop using scores to even teams". Don't put words in my mouth

 

On 9/22/2019 at 3:55 AM, -=HipKat=- said:

If you were the ref in a Hockey game (or any game) and one team was up by 4 goals, would you make that team sit 1 or more players so it was more fair for the team that was losing?? Of course not. That's ridiculous, right? So is using /Scores as a way of determining if teams are even or not. if one team is getting rolled, the that team is getting rolled. End of story. Next map, shuffle and be done with it. The maps don't go on for hours.  Sometimes teams win or lose big. It's how competitive matches go, occasionally. I never, ever in my years playing ET ever saw anyone use scores to determine if teams are even. I've only ever seen it based on number of players per team. And that's how it should be!

Either we are blind or you have been suggesting we don't use /scores and only base it off of number of players. No words have been put in your mouth. If this is not the case, what are you trying to get out of this topic? You want to understand why we even teams the way do? Im lost.

Edited September 24, 2019 by CheepHeep

[-=HipKat=-]

Just now, CheepHeep said:

 

Either we are blind or you have been suggesting we don't use /scores and only base it off of number of players. No words have been put in your mouth.

I'm sorry, where does it say that F|A should stop using scores to even teams?? That is my experience and my opinion. It's ridiculous to me to use /scores to even teams when the maps end in 15-30 minutes, the teams list at the end of the map isn't exactly the same as the beginning of the map, some maps that one side rolls on, that teams get rolled on the next map and if one team is blowing over the other, consistently, then do !Shuffle. There, you want to extract a suggestion out of it? That's the only phrase in 3 pages of discussion (which was less discussion and mostly cutting me down) that could be called an actual suggestion.

[L3ftY.]

I would lock it and throw away the key, but meh, its a healthy debate. Sort of. Seems to go in circles though. Or more like banging your head against a brick wall.

 

Lets just keep it civil shall we...

[CheepHeep]

/scores is useless at the beginning but during a match it can be useful. Keep in mind we don't just use /scores and nothing else. We look at the whole picture. Map progression, whos on each team, time left, no. of kills, /scores etc.  Might seem like a lot but it takes 5 seconds if you know what to look for. 

[Cross Marian]

41 minutes ago, CheepHeep said:

/scores is useless at the beginning but during a match it can be useful. Keep in mind we don't just use /scores and nothing else. We look at the whole picture. Map progression, whos on each team, time left, no. of kills, /scores etc.  Might seem like a lot but it takes 5 seconds if you know what to look for. 

I agree with that. Balancing teams is done with a global picture of the situation and several factors must be taken into consideration.

 

That being said, I understand what HipKat is trying to say. That it can be frustrating sometimes when you are on the winning team to force balance in the other direction.

I agree that, in a perfect world, if both teams have the same number of players, the map should be played as such until the end. And if a team is overwhelming, shuffle or other blancing actions should only be taken at the begining of the next map.

However, this is not a perfect world. If a team is much stronger than the other, people on the weaker team will start to leave. I've witnessed it several times. This is why admins try to balance teams as much as possible even during the map and not wait for the end (in case of big differences). Because if we don't do so, we loose players who leave because they are here to relax and are tired of getting powned non stop by a much stronger team.

 

So, to conclude, I understand your opinion HipKat but it just doesn't suit the way things happen on the servers. If we were to apply your suggestion, I'm afraid we would loose more players.

 

 

42 minutes ago, L3ftY. said:

Seems to go in circles though.

Agreed, so I won't spam the topic anymore. Just wanted to react with my opinion.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Cross Marian

[seriallnumber]

55 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

Best reply! Well said and without criticizing!

Isn't the context given below the same rule we are using now? If you agree in this reply , then why did you went through the pain to make a thread with all inconveniences , although what you suggest is already being implemented.

11 hours ago, Aniky said:

Im pretty sure Hip, that majority of admins and even a lot of regulars often check scores to see the results and fairness of teams, i even made tutorial back at past for new fresh admins here to use more often scores over number of players per team to determinate equality of teams, as u can have two above average guys in one team and even if that team is down by 2 or 3 players, they will still dominate the hell out of them since those two guys will do the work of 5 or 6 normal average players. Experienced players can determinate if teams re even or not just by the flow of game without even pressing tab or checking scores, simply by seeing how both teams re handling on map and if axis are able to set up some pressure on defence or re just getting stomped up each spawn. 

 

There is always debate on how to best determinate equality between both teams and i would still say knowing regulars there and using scores would be by fast best way to quicky see the status of skills in each team. There are some maps where axis will obviously have more kills over allies simply because of mapping and easier holding positions that will sometimes make allies die more to complete certain objective but wont neccesary mean that the teams re uneven.

 

[-=HipKat=-]

13 hours ago, Kai said:

Isn't the context given below the same rule we are using now? If you agree in this reply , then why did you went through the pain to make a thread with all inconveniences , although what you suggest is already being implemented.

 

No, instead of trying to make me look stupid for saying anything in the first place, Aniky laid it out in a calm, reasonable way.

As a side note, nobody, that's not a F|A Member posts and contributes as much on this forum as I do. I'm getting a little tired of being talked down to every time I make a suggestion or express an opinion. 

Just saying....

[daredevil]

15 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

I compared using /scores as a way to balance teams to other team competitions and how it doesn't make sense to me. I never said "we should stop using scores to even teams". Don't put words in my mouth

 

To answer your above statement see below - 

On 9/21/2019 at 10:55 PM, -=HipKat=- said:

If you were the ref in a Hockey game (or any game) and one team was up by 4 goals, would you make that team sit 1 or more players so it was more fair for the team that was losing?? Of course not. That's ridiculous, right? So is using /Scores as a way of determining if teams are even or not. if one team is getting rolled, the that team is getting rolled. End of story. Next map, shuffle and be done with it. The maps don't go on for hours. 

 

I am again saying to YOU - Stop acting like you didn't said anything. What you mean to clearly say is highlighted in red. I am just quoting your lines and no one else. First you are saying using /scores is ridiculous and now when others try to explain you go nuts on them. No one is talking down to you and stop playing victim card. Captn said this here clearly - 

 

On 9/23/2019 at 8:24 AM, captnconcrete said:

well when i balance i dont just use /scores..  i look at players playing.. how map is going.  i look also team scores ..u know tabs key .. i also look my own abilities as a player...  i pm players i think could move to better game over all.. an yes im talkin to u u started this thread sounds like wawawawa to me.

He clearly said - what Aniky said. Any sane person would realize what captn and Aniky said is similar.  

 

On top if you had better argument or logic you could have presented it but you use this as your resort - and hence I had to again 'explain' to you. 

On 9/23/2019 at 8:27 AM, -=HipKat=- said:

Jeez, God forbid anyone ever question or challenge or suggest changing the way F|A does anything........

 

My reply all above. You will not receive any reply from me at least on this topic anymore. I can't keep 'explaining' more. 

[-=HipKat=-]

24 minutes ago, daredevil said:

 

To answer your above statement see below - 

 

I am again saying to YOU - Stop acting like you didn't said anything. What you mean to clearly say is highlighted in red. I am just quoting your lines and no one else. First you are saying using /scores is ridiculous and now when others try to explain you go nuts on them. No one is talking down to you and stop playing victim card. Captn said this here clearly - 

 

He clearly said - what Aniky said. Any sane person would realize what captn and Aniky said is similar.  

 

On top if you had better argument or logic you could have presented it but you use this as your resort - and hence I had to again 'explain' to you. 

 

My reply all above. You will not receive any reply from me at least on this topic anymore. I can't keep 'explaining' more. 

Is someone forcing you to reply?

Captain said it was a case of Wawawa. Did Aniky say that?? No. He didn't, so NOT the same

 

There was no "victim' card, until I got called basically, a baby, my post was "silly" and that comment was covering everything. The Fueldump thread (And everyone STILL Bitches when that map comes on), lowering heavy weapons and other threads and that goes back YEARS! 

 

And btw, why do Euros seem to have no sense of humor, no sense of sarcasm and extremely thin skins? I JUST MADE A 3 PAGE FKN DISCUSSION on your goddamned forum that wasn't favorite movie, favorite song or can we have a new maps thread, that only a few people were capable of making a mature, logical comment on.

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by -=HipKat=-