redy. Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Thats the thing with the political threats. Opinions collide. @Anni: out of respect i will not reply to your questions. To much heat. Luv you Let us see where this ship takes us. I try to stay positive and optimistic. Time will tell, i guess. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la7ette Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I think we should shuffle..and see if the new teams can make a better game. a shuffle......okay.....we would send our Merkel free of charge!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann!b@l Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Luv you but me too my friend!! And having different opinions doesn't mean no love.. But I respect your wish to no go further. So yeah let's see.. and let's hope only the best for all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platonic Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Let me react, because our opinions are closer than yours and redy's but I still respectfully disagree on some things. Indeed, focus on USA is a good thing for all.. Now, if it implies other countries in the world (like all those you mention after that), there's nothing different with what his predecessors already did. For the rest, the only thing that Trump can do is to favor US fossil-fuel productions.. This might influence a bit the oil market but not dat much.. In few words, he can influence this market but can't really f*** Saudi Arabia nor OPEC, they call the shots. Trump can do a lot. He can concentrate on alternative energy and thus lower fossil fuel consumption. That, combined with a deal with the Russians could make America more independent from the Saudis. Now of course, with his "climate change is a hoax, global warming means our thermometers are broken"-rethoric, it's not likely to happen. But he can do it and in fact, I deem the chance bigger that Trump would stop co-operating with the Saudis than Clinton. I only think there's not a big chance he will be able do this without causing more damage. Good decision yes.. At same time, it's "only" 400.000$ per year for him.. So it's part of his com or he could also invest for future with some politic actions expected by major companies.. What would probably yield him biggest profit than this amount.. Who knows.. In all cases, I wouldn't give much importance at such an action w\o knowing what he really planned in his mind. Honestly I don't think we should minimize this gesture. Let's call it good if it's good, and call things bad when they occur. Anticipating is not the way to go here, imo. If only it was a matter of iphones.. lol Anyway.. Aside that China scares the whole world, that they disrupt the established order of the world which some don't want to see change its hierarchy, and that they're the new biggest enemy chosen and designated.. What makes you feel than China is the worst country for human rights? I mean yes, they're really far from being fair and an example about it.. But I could quote you many countries way worse than China (some of them have even been put with complicity of some US organizations btw). I do agree with this analysis for a large part. This is why Trump is not a good choice. Yes, he brings some positive notes, for example about Russia. But he just elects new enemies. Russia becomes China and hostility against Muslims increases. We should dare to make the issues as complex as they are: China has issues with some human rights, the US has issues with others. Let's listen to what UN organisations have to say about it and try and give them more power where needed. Glad to hear that like me you many times sent clothes, medicines, school material, so on.. I'm one of those who thinks that even if you can't help in every fields, every time or like you would wish, there's at least some of them where you can with simple things or decisions when you can. So somewhere, yes some give a shit. "We are evil"-Redy. I disagree and so do you. But I do agree most of us have selfish attitudes. I think we should accept this and work with this selfishness. Yes, we should call upon peoples empathy when refugees come knocking on our doors. But we should also make people realize that it's in their own interest to respect people. We should make people understand that if we elect presidents like Trump or Le Pen, who elect certain enemies, that the world will slightly become more hostile and your safe feeling may just move in the negative direction. All in all, let's see what the future brings and not forget that we make the future, together. Edited November 23, 2016 by Platonic some green color forgotten 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann!b@l Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 Trump can do a lot. He can concentrate on alternative energy and thus lower fossil fuel consumption. That, combined with a deal with the Russians could make America more independent from the Saudis. Now of course, with his "climate change is a hoax, global warming means our thermometers are broken"-rethoric, it's not likely to happen. But he can do it and in fact, I deem the chance bigger that Trump would stop co-operating with the Saudis than Clinton. I only think there's not a big chance he will be able do this without causing more damage. He didn't planned to invest in alternative energy but to tap new zones of fossil-fuel, and ores of shale, coal, so on.. This is slightly different. And don't forget than Russia is member of OPEP.. So yeah it will be really hard to implement such alternatives. Honestly I don't think we should minimize this gesture. Let's call it good if it's good, and call things bad when they occur. Anticipating is not the way to go here, imo. I don't minimize it, that's why I quote it as a good decision in first place and end it as a speculation.. But you will agree with me than it's hard to trust someone who frauded his taxes and used scams for personal interests. I do agree with this analysis for a large part. This is why Trump is not a good choice. Yes, he brings some positive notes, for example about Russia. But he just elects new enemies. Russia becomes China and hostility against Muslims increases. We should dare to make the issues as complex as they are: China has issues with some human rights, the US has issues with others. Let's listen to what UN organisations have to say about it and try and give them more power where needed. This positive notes wasn't made in an innocent objective.. Everyone know than if you think at Russia you also have to take in consideration his closest ally China.. And vice versa. like 2 brothers. Diplomatic\alliance game with Russia to isolate China will not work. But it's still a good step yes, if nothing else than that. "We are evil"-Redy. I disagree and so do you. But I do agree most of us have selfish attitudes. I think we should accept this and work with this selfishness. Yes, we should call upon peoples empathy when refugees come knocking on our doors. But we should also make people realize that it's in their own interest to respect people. We should make people understand that if we elect presidents like Trump or Le Pen, who elect certain enemies, that the world will slightly become more hostile and your safe feeling may just move in the negative direction. Nothing else to add aside that I agree all this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader RedBaird Posted November 23, 2016 Leader Share Posted November 23, 2016 Wow! Some FA-Leaders have having a "civilized" discussion. No wonder they are Leaders in this Clan! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nooneonetheone Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 you can belive whatever you want to, but sid, do some serious research and youll belive that clinton is a massmurder which belongs in jail (like every other politican) and that she really has got her campainmoney from eg the rockefeller foundation, but most of it from saudi arabia and qatar! also shes pro abortion, trump isnt! he says so but politicans talk much without saying anything and btw hes a puppet to- check the institutions hes got (many!) credits to pay off- eg the rockefeller foundation again and other elite coorps. and open up your eyes, your brain and your soul a shuffle......okay.....we would send our Merkel free of charge!!! we should give some extramoney for those who will take her xP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krusnik87 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Just my two cents, but if some are interrested... ---link removed--- And !pants Redbaird ofc. >:3 Edited November 23, 2016 by Ann!b@l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann!b@l Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Just my two cents, but if some are interrested... ---link removed--- discuss politic isn't forbidden on forum as long as it's discussed in a civilized manner.. If it bores you we have a plenty of subjects and sections on forum than this thread.. And really kind from you but links to other forums (even political ones) ain't allowed.... thanks! Edited November 23, 2016 by Ann!b@l 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader RedBaird Posted November 23, 2016 Leader Share Posted November 23, 2016 XXX'd out the link I will have to read more of that sometime. One item that caught my attention was "US Marines deploying to Noray, chill goes down Putin's spine". Ha, Ha, Ha! It was only 330 Marines on a training mission with the Norwegian military. I do so love the dramatic headlines and commentators' conclusions, sometimes. Some are saying that the election of Trump means that Politics in the USA has changed forever! Some have claimed this Presidential election was the most divisive in US history. They forget about the election of Lincoln, which led to the secession of some states even before he took office. His election led to a civil war and over 600,000 deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redy. Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) To start with some some good news: Donald Trump provokes backlash from supporters as he signals u-turns on global warming http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-backlash-breitbart-reddit-ann-coulter-hillary-clinton-global-warming-uturn-a7432846.html One other monkey wrench: 1980: human population 4.5 billion 1990: human population 5.3 billion 2000: human population 6.0 billion today's human population: 7.4 billion Here the latest list of the billionaires we talked about: Thank you @platinoic: Yes, I agree! We have a selfish attitude. The manufacturers in China are a mess. These poor people. You cannot compare the human right situation in China with the one we have in the US or Europe. There is none. US has the constitution, Germany has the "Grundgesetz", "Human Rights Act" in England. China is a so called "authoritarian state" It systematically curtails a wide range of fundamental human rights, including freedom of expression, association, assembly, and religion. (Human rights watch) China/Asia pacific had a big boost in billionaires between 2009 and 2011. The number grew from 130 billionaires (2009) to 330 billionaires in (2011). The 200 more billionaires are mainly in manufacturing. Cloth, electronics. All the good stuff we use daily. On top of that. With manufacturing in the Asia Pacific, we give away a bunch of technology intelligence. I wish everyone on planet earth could be well, happy and healthy. If you look at the earths population growth and the increase of wealth in Asia Pacific... We pump a lot of money into the east. Let us add taxes ontop of trade deals. Pull manufacturing back into our own countries. Less unemployment, we keep technology intelligence inhouse, we dont support China with his ruthlessness toads Human Rights. Edited November 24, 2016 by redy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftWingVixen Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 America: oh no Everyone else: lol /grabs popcorn, waves happily from a distance 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann!b@l Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) You cannot compare the human right situation in China with the one we have in the US or Europe. There is none. US has the constitution, Germany has the "Grundgesetz", "Human Rights Act" in England. China is a so called "authoritarian state" Why not?? and "is so called" yes.. while for example there's a country that has no constitution.. built a wall.. breaks continuously human rights.. but is considered respectable.. never been described by any of these pejorative political states.. and always got the support from USA. Now my question isn't about this country but the difference of treatment politically and in the media in matter of human rights.. Why?? By the way, there's only 5 country in the world that don't have a written consitution: United Kingdom, New Zealand, Canada, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Constitution of China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_China memories memories.. Human Rights Watch was founded as a private American NGO in 1978, under the name Helsinki Watch, to monitor the former Soviet Union's compliance with the Helsinki Accords. Helsinki Watch adopted a practice of publicly "naming and shaming" abusive governments through media coverage and through direct exchanges with policymakers. By shining the international spotlight on human rights violations in the Soviet Union and its European partners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch So today it's the turn of China. for period of Cold War in 1978: The Cold War (1962–1979) refers to the phase within the Cold War that spanned the period between the aftermath of the Cuban Missile Crisis in late October 1962, through the détente period beginning in 1969, to the end of détente in the late 1970s. The United States maintained its Cold War engagement with the Soviet Union during the period, despite internal preoccupations with the assassination of John F. Kennedy, the Civil Rights Movement and the opposition to United States involvement in the Vietnam War. In 1968, Eastern Bloc member Czechoslovakia attempted the reforms of the Prague Spring and was subsequently invaded by the Soviet Union and other Warsaw Pact members, who reinstated the Soviet model. By 1973, the US had withdrawn from the Vietnam War. While communists gained power in some South East Asian countries, they were divided by the Sino-Soviet Split, with China moving closer to the Western camp, following US President Richard Nixon's visit to China. In the 1960s and 1970s, the Third World was increasingly divided between governments backed by the Soviets (such as Libya, Iraq and Syria), governments backed by NATO (such as Saudi Arabia), and a growing camp of non-aligned nations. The Soviet and other Eastern Bloc economies continued to stagnate. Worldwide inflation occurred following the 1973 oil crisis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_(1962%E2%80%9379) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War This part sounds familiar? Yeah, history is an eternal cycle. Pursuant to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Human Rights Watch (HRW) opposes violations of what it considers basic human rights. This includes capital punishment and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. HRW advocates freedoms in connection with fundamental human rights, such as freedom of religion and freedom of the press. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch and look here: https://www.hrw.org/united-states/criminal-justice Nothing mentionned about capital punishment nor about what could be considered as war crimes in the past.. Coincidences?? All this to say that I really have no trust in such organizations no matter what they claim trying to do.. Call me paranoid if you want, but when I see too much signs of a cat, I call it a cat. No matter the numerals and despite the current slight slowing down, China of today is already no more the China of 20 or 30 years ago behind. They might even overtake US in few years.. Probably a matter of time. Anyway, there's improvements for its population even though it's still insufficient. And like I already mentionned in my previous post, freedom most of the time is linked at the economical situation of a country and its population. But, some interests don't want it seen this way when they don't simply push it to be seen only as dark.. Like they still needed approval of public opinion.. Do they? http://www.focus-economics.com/country-indicator/china/gdp-usd-bn http://www.focus-economics.com/country-indicator/china/gdp-per-capita-USD http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/24/china-has-more-billionaires-than-us-report.html http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/23/news/economy/asian-millionaires-wealth/ Edited November 24, 2016 by Ann!b@l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann!b@l Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) They forget about the election of Lincoln, which led to the secession of some states even before he took office. His election led to a civil war and over 600,000 deaths. true!! And for my part the political face of US changed after the assassination of JFK. Some "hidden dark powers" showed their true ambitions and determination, and it was never the same thing after that. And no, I wasn't a supporter of JFK nor is a supporter of every conspiracy theories. Edited November 24, 2016 by Ann!b@l 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platonic Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 To start with some some good news: Donald Trump provokes backlash from supporters as he signals u-turns on global warming http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-backlash-breitbart-reddit-ann-coulter-hillary-clinton-global-warming-uturn-a7432846.html Thank you @platinoic: Yes, I agree! We have a selfish attitude. The manufacturers in China are a mess. These poor people. You cannot compare the human right situation in China with the one we have in the US or Europe. There is none. US has the constitution, Germany has the "Grundgesetz", "Human Rights Act" in England. China is a so called "authoritarian state" It systematically curtails a wide range of fundamental human rights, including freedom of expression, association, assembly, and religion. (Human rights watch) Look, I totally agree we can't compare America with China. Every situation is specific and his its own weaknesses. I also want to agree the situation in China is worse. Homeless working people leaving in cellars is daily, normal business in cities. However, if you cite human rights watch you should also recognize they see big issues in the US as well. https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/united-states Example: "Youth in the Criminal Justice System In every US jurisdiction, children are prosecuted in adult courts and sentenced to adult prison terms. Fourteen states have no minimum age for adult prosecution, while others set the age at 10, 12, or 13. Some states automatically prosecute youth age 14 and above as adults." It is often easier to criticize foreign policy. If we can however put political pressure from state to state to cure human rights violations, we are on the good way. Only this should always be done with diplomacy, without souring relations. Sour relations between nations can cause a lot more than only child labour. Certainly if they are nuclear powers. I read that news on trumps U-turn as well. That's some good news, I'm curious how it will translate into policy. America: oh no Everyone else: lol /grabs popcorn, waves happily from a distance If it only were true we could ignore this situation and move on with our happy isolated lives 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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