ET Hardcore Hardcore changes - for friendly Fire

[CheepHeep]

Maybe just have it on for panzer for now and see how it goes. I mostly see players using panzer not care about kiling their teammates in the process of getting a kill. 

[Symfony]

I'd say panzer and rnade at the very least. HC gets really boring really quickly because people think they can rnade everyone on their team just to get one kill.

[Federicrit]

I've read all the other opinions, and this is mine:

 

First, I would like to get clarified about the mechanic. So, for example, if a panzer shoots a teammate, the panzer will receive dmg for doing that, but, will the teammate receive dmg?

 

If the teammate doesn't receive dmg, then I don't like the mechanic. I agree with @Mordecai:
 

"This may lead to overpowered strats that are only possible in no FF mode, for example you could arty a tank barrier in order for your team to plant the dynamite harmless, and wiping out the other team in the process, with only a minor sacrifice of one person."
 

The existence of this type of strategies are the reason of me not enjoying no-FF servers as much as I enjoy Hardcore. So, if this is how the mechanic would work, then I wouldn't really support it.

 

On the other hand, if the teammate does receive dmg, then I also don't like it. I agree with @Aniky:

"Because as u know, not everyone is on the same skill level and gamewise level as certain ppl are. Some players do not understand or simply dont see arty being set or strike being thrown to opponents spawn or strategial position, which will mean that the fop who did everything right will suffer because of that one individual who just plays like a brainless chicken. Second one is that i have experienced couple of times as well and is very annoying that certain teammate will intentionally run into your arties and then complain afterwards, which means u will suffer reflective damage back each time purely because of his dumbness.

 

It also comes to nades, u would be nading enemy spawn, ur teammate with flamer or something else would run into that spawn, trying to flame opponents and die by your nade even tho he would probably see it before but decided to just ignore it. There are a lot of cases like that, when u check your idea from smiple view, its briliant and would definitely improve a lot in terms of teamkilling or team bleeding, but it would then need to be watched over admins as well, who would need to react quicker than usual if cases like above starts to happen because u can have very fast a big shit storm over situations like that."

So, this would restrict the mechanic to flamethrower, panzer and mortar. The mechanic wouldn't apply to granades/rifle nades, knife, mg42, normal weapons (pistols, smg, rifle, etc.), arty and dynamite/satchel. But it could happen that a mortar is shooting in a good strategical position, and teammates ignore it; then is the same as Aniky said. It could also happen that there are 4 enemies together and 1 ally, and panzer shoots killing the 4 enemies and his ally. That is a good play, even though there was a team kill. The same with flame.

 

So... I don't really support the mechanic. I prefer to leave things just the way they are now. Just verbal warn, then !warn, then !kick team killers.

[Symfony]

12 minutes ago, Federicrit said:

Because as u know, not everyone is on the same skill level and gamewise level as certain ppl are

I feel like this isn't a great reason not to implement it. If you can't figure out how to effectively play as a fops, you don't belong on HC. Similarly, if you cant figure out how to play without killing your teammates over and over again you also don't belong on HC. This may help weed out some of those players.

[iCiCeLzz]

I agree with @Symfony I personally am not the best with using FOP so i usually play that in silent if I want to use that class but everything else isn't a big deal I do agree with saving the obj by killing multiple enemies and losing a teammate in the process though. It's a subject that you can relate to on both sides but I am sure with a few trial runs and some tweaking we could find a better solution to the current problem everything takes time.

[Symfony]

5 minutes ago, iCiCeLzz said:

saving the obj by killing multiple enemies and losing a teammate in the process though

Just to add to what I said already, this is the only time it's acceptable in my opinion to teamkill in order to kill an enemy. 

[iCiCeLzz]

8 minutes ago, Symfony said:

Just to add to what I said already, this is the only time it's acceptable in my opinion to teamkill in order to kill an enemy. 

I agree but rifle nades are OP and they should be limited no need for 8 Engineers with all r nades on one team and panzer shouldn't be in HC nothing about using panzer is hard lol.

[Elsarof]

HC is good as it's now.
maybe taking off paner of the weapons' list is kinda a good idea but major changes are not welcome to be honest.

[Blurdecai]

2 hours ago, Elsarof said:

HC is good as it's now.

Agree, no changes needed, and as I mentioned before, this mechanic is exploitable.

 

Is there an option to add a popup on player screen? That reads something like "Dont harm your allies" or something like that, so that players notice their mistake and stop.

Example:

 

And I don't know if the complaints system works, but maybe implementing a sit out mechanic if you get too many TK complaints, for example, 3 complaints filled and you get 5 min locked in spec mode or kicked in the worst of cases, obviously this may only be for kills with bullet weapons or knife, because for explosives it is kind of difficult to avoid teammates sometimes.

 

But Reverse Friendly Fire has no place in this game in my opinion, FF is another tool in a medic's inventory because of how game works.

 

And it would be outright stupid to be gibbed from far away due to a explosion you caused with a panzer and a teammate got in the way of it. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Mordecai

[Federicrit]

55 minutes ago, Mordecai said:

Is there an option to add a popup on player screen? That reads something like "Dont harm your allies" or something like that, so that players notice their mistake and stop.

Great idea! I would support something like this.

[Gengis]

We have a winning formula on HC. The server has players. So i dont see the need for any change.

I go with @CheepHeep here. The only problem (not so important) is with the panzer.

 

Gengis

[Aniky]

10 hours ago, Symfony said:

I feel like this isn't a great reason not to implement it. If you can't figure out how to effectively play as a fops, you don't belong on HC. Similarly, if you cant figure out how to play without killing your teammates over and over again you also don't belong on HC. This may help weed out some of those players.

Being an effective fop in first row means u have an effective team, who understand how fop works, which sadly never gonna be the case on any pub server, even HC. I have done my share of fop over my time in ETPro and pubs and know prolly about it more than any regular fop on HC would know, specially when it comes to timing and positions of arty/strikes, which still doesnt save me from a random teammate jumping foolishly into my strike or arty and then complain afterwards. U can have 10 years of FOP experience, but what does that help u when teammates around u dont and they still run into your arties, which was the point of that quote u did.

[Mufasa]

On 10/15/2019 at 2:26 PM, Mordecai said:

This may lead to overpowered strats that are only possible in no FF mode, for example you could arty a tank barrier in order for your team to plant the dynamite harmless, and wiping out the other team in the process, with only a minor sacrifice of one person.

FF would still be on. So, if you put an arty on barrier while your teammates are trying to plant, they die... only difference is that now, so do you.

 

On 10/15/2019 at 6:40 PM, Aniky said:

The general idea is good, BUT its a double edged sword, why?

Nothing you're saying is untrue, but I think the benefit of forcing players to watch their own friendly fire is far greater than occasionally killing a teammate when it's their fault. 99% of the time, my team damage received is far higher than my team damage given.

 

At a minimum... I haven't seen any arguments against FF reflected for panzer/flamethrower/mortar.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Mufasa