ET Jay #2 FG42+Adrenaline

[N!COT!N3]

52 minutes ago, K.LisTa said:

And lastly adrenaline makes landmines and rifles grenades a complete joke. On NQ1 they are borderline OP, on this server, you laugh when you see them.

I completely agree on that…..landmines and rifle suck on jay2...they walk just through a whole field of landmines

 

4 hours ago, ElEl said:

And then let us limit the (rambo)medics to 2 per team,

this one is a server killer....tried it in the past....lost a lot of regulars

[ChaOs]

2 hours ago, ElEl said:

I'm strongly against this, I definitely think we should do a poll before we make such a major change. 

    U see, what you did here?  No, not a poll, DD decides. That is poll enough

 

5 hours ago, ElEl said:

If you re-read my post I said MOST FG users, not all. But, if you want to disprove what you think I'm saying and get a k:d ratio of 4:1 or better on a full server then feel free try. Regardless, what I said is the current meta that many people see on the server and the problem we're talking about.

 

A k/d of 4/1 of FG42-covies is ultra rare.

Most of them are by far worst.

 

From -K.Lista- @K.LisTa "And lastly adrenaline makes landmines and rifles grenades a complete joke. On NQ1 they are borderline OP, on this server, you laugh when you see them."

Totally correct. Landmines should have a little more impact - there where reduced from 50 to 30 now and I don't know why. There was a limit by using such a lot of "mana" for only one mine.

 

 

5 hours ago, ElEl said:

Usually the team with the highest fragger is the winning team. You can go for kills and still help your team so long as you're not one of those people that just camp in the same place all game. You can't expect to win the game as the attacking team without getting kills cause that's just stupid.

 

I would like to know how do you get a "number" out of that. But even when, this says nothing. Here is important to not counfound cause and effect.

 

5 hours ago, ElEl said:

You can't expect to win the game as the attacking team without getting kills cause that's just stupid.

Challenge accepted, lol.

 

5 hours ago, ElEl said:

6 hours ago, ChaOs said:

But the player who use covie is limited per default.

 

Because the interest being covie is limited on jay2.

 

5 hours ago, ElEl said:

I presented limiting the number of covies as a potential solution and showed the problems that would bring. Not sure why you took that point to heart considering I said it wouldn't solve the problem. 🤷‍♂️

Maybe because I think only a hard "number" would not stablize anything. What is, wenn the map is bigger? What is when 20 players on each side? And so on.

And I really liked, taking the point to heart. But when I am reading this, there I don't find anything but problems. When for example 3 wanna be covies and only 2 are possible, there's also a high risk that one is leaving the server. (In that point, that is said (not only by you), this covie "is a problem".) But when you cause new problems to solve other problems, you ever have to take a measurement on the new problems. That's missing here.

 

 

 

 

[ChaOs]

1 hour ago, N!COT!N3 said:

5 hours ago, ElEl said:

And then let us limit the (rambo)medics to 2 per team,

this one is a server killer....tried it in the past....lost a lot of regulars

Yeah, this only was a parabel...

To show when to heavy changes appear.

 

I am honest. When everything else stays and only covie on Jay2 gets stuck. I'll not play Jay2 anymore and switch to Jay3.

In my opinion FG42 is balanced. But this is subjective... I mean, when this weapon would be so busted, everyone would take it.

Saying the third time, everyone ignoring this sentence.

 

[Dest!Ny]

6 hours ago, ElEl said:

I don't see this helping to be honest. Most FG users just do what I said above and get 4-5 kills and then die. When they die their charge goes back to being full so they can just adrenaline straight away again. It's also the reason why limiting the number of adrenaline uses per life wouldn't work. I think all this would do is hinder objective players that use satchel and smoke grenades for team play. I really don't see a solution to the problem.

 

I definitely don't disagree with you. It's a very small nerf to what some perceive to be a big problem, however after reading the pdf file I realized there wasn't a lot to work with. If we are going to start using custom code my suggestion would be different, namely to limit the amount of ammo FG users spawn with. One thing that none has mentioned yet is that the reload time on FG is absolutely bonkers and that makes it very forgiving to just empty an entire clip on someone, reload, and repeat. Spawning with less ammo doesn't make the FG less deadly but it promotes a more tactful use of their bullets.

 

I do want to add that I don't see FG as a massive problem. It's an easy weapon to learn but it is at least a weapon. A few years ago on jay1 we had a similar discussion about poison knifes which were the easy weapon to learn there, and compared to that FG is like a blessing 😛 (personal opinion of course). Easy to learn weapons are fine in my opinion if they at least fit an FPS kind of gameplay. I also don't remember the last time I got outfragged by an FG user so maybe we shouldn't widen the gap between medics and covies 🤔

[-=HipKat=-]

16 hours ago, CaRaNo said:

As Lista suggested, there is alot of adren abuse on jay2, yes I know its an adrealine server, but some ppl just boost after boost, even hiding till recharge and off they go again, some wont even go into a firefight without it - it does frustrate a few players and when a decent player acts like this, it does have a tendency to make ppl leave or go spec

I guess thats the way its always been - but, it does have an effect on server 10v10 can soon go to 5v5

The fg42 does seem more acurate or something on Jay2 with little or no spread 40+acc is easily achieved even at distance, more so at closer range

Just me venting off, but glad to have my say😇

 

By the way, no offence meant to anyone who think they fall into this catagory

It is what it is

Pits. I've specced this guy, he does this, boost after boost after boost. To me adren is a cheat. I know that sounds extreme but for someone like me, average player that doesn't easily hit headshots (and after 12 years, that's not gonna change) it sucks to shoot someone 10, 12 times and they don't die and it has caused me to get frustrated and leave. The whole adrenaline thing is new to me. I don'tr and won't use it and don't understand why it even exists. Maybe it would be better on Jay 1 where people seem less "serious" about fragging and more into the chaos on that server

 

  

14 hours ago, ChaOs said:

 

 

 

Another point, when FG42 should be "weaker" even if the 20 shoots let you VERY often die on reload, the MED-packs of medics should also decrease from +20 to +8,

 

 

 

Until you need to be healed and the closest medic is out of med packs....

Edited May 21, 2020 by -=HipKat=-

[-=HipKat=-]

4 hours ago, K.LisTa said:

Adrenaline was fine on this server 10 years ago, when you had 20vs20+ fights every evening. It allowed you to press forward, and gave you an incentive to attack the front line. If you wanted to steal the gold from the bank of the default Goldrush map, you needed to have adrenaline to avoid being obliterated as soon as you enter the bank by the 8 -10 axis campers.

 

The server isn't as popular anymore. The majority of the time, there are a few bots on the server. What's the point of adrenaline during a 6vs6 fight ? It's no longer a gimmick to help you survive pushing forward, it becomes a "f*** you I win this 1vs1 regardless of your actions". If you're a good player, you can even pin down the whole enemy team on your own.

 

It also encourages a behavior which is, in my opinion, is toxic as hell : there are players who spawn, rush to the enemy spawn, use adrenaline and spawnkill. Die eventually. Rinse and repeat. They spend whole maps spawnkilling, nothing else. They get good amount of kills and they're happy with that. Well, while the rules allow it, I'm not sure people enjoy having to deal with a medic or a flamer under adrenaline every time they spawn.

 

It also goes against any kind of teamplay : you don't want to heal others or give ammunition. If you do you're actually shooting yourself in the foot since you're delaying your access to adrenaline.

 

And lastly adrenaline makes landmines and rifles grenades a complete joke. On NQ1 they are borderline OP, on this server, you laugh when you see them.

+1000

 

  

2 hours ago, ChaOs said:

Yeah, this only was a parabel...

To show when to heavy changes appear.

 

I am honest. When everything else stays and only covie on Jay2 gets stuck. I'll not play Jay2 anymore and switch to Jay3.

In my opinion FG42 is balanced. But this is subjective... I mean, when this weapon would be so busted, everyone would take it.

Saying the third time, everyone ignoring this sentence.

 

You seem to think this thread is attacking FG42 when it's not. It's about FG 42 while using Adren and Adren in general

Edited May 21, 2020 by -=HipKat=-

[ChaOs]

39 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

You seem to think this thread is attacking FG42 when it's not. It's about FG 42 while using Adren and Adren in general

It is. Because it only shows up dren+fg42, not dren in general.

 

57 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

To me adren is a cheat. I know that sounds extreme but for someone like me, average player that doesn't easily hit headshots

A cheat? A cheat that everyone can use, is not a cheat. Else you can say "headshots making more damage" is a cheat or "medipacks" are a cheat.

Imagine ... "In reallife you'd make small packets out of no where, then you run over them and then you're healed against each poison, and your lifetime has increased"

 

 

 

[-=HipKat=-]

13 minutes ago, ChaOs said:

It is. Because it only shows up dren+fg42, not dren in general.

 

A cheat? A cheat that everyone can use, is not a cheat. Else you can say "headshots making more damage" is a cheat or "medipacks" are a cheat.

Imagine ... "In reallife you'd make small packets out of no where, then you run over them and then you're healed against each poison, and your lifetime has increased"

 

 

 

Totally disagree. Head shots are a skill. Med packs area necessary part of the game and keep the game going by keeping teammates alive so they can do what engi's do and what covies do, etc. Adren does one thing - gives an unfair advantage in speed and taking damage. That's all it does. It's not a necessary part of the game. 

[ChaOs]

2 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

Totally disagree. Head shots are a skill. Med packs area necessary part of the game and keep the game going by keeping teammates alive so they can do what engi's do and what covies do, etc. Adren does one thing - gives an unfair advantage in speed and taking damage. That's all it does. It's not a necessary part of the game. 

And dren is nessesary to get into an object hall without being dead immidiately.

Unfair disadvantage when everyone can use it?

So med packs so are also an unfair disadvantage. I got some HS and down on 30 HP? No prob. 5 packets can solve that problem. 

 

Disadvantages are defined on wikipedia: Uniqueness, External links, Internal Links and Impact.

This is not a case of an opinion.

 

[-=HipKat=-]

Just now, ChaOs said:

And dren is nessesary to get into an object hall without being dead immidiately.

Unfair disadvantage when everyone can use it?

So med packs so are also an unfair disadvantage. I got some HS and down on 30 HP? No prob. 5 packets can solve that problem. 

 

Disadvantages are defined on wikipedia: Uniqueness, External links, Internal Links and Impact.

This is not a case of an opinion.

 

That obj can be taken with teamwork. It's happened in ETPro and on other servers without Adren since ET has existed. But dying Engi's cannot build a CP without a med there to revive them. The real issues with medpacks, btw isn't that they exist, it's that inexperienced medics don't use them as they were designed, which is frustrating for the player that's in limbo.

 

TBH, the only people you'll convince that Adren is necessary is other players that are addicted to using Adren

[ChaOs]

2 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

The real issues with medpacks, btw isn't that they exist, it's that inexperienced medics don't use them as they were designed, which is frustrating for the player that's in limbo.

Partial agreed.

2 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

TBH, the only people you'll convince that Adren is necessary is other players that are addicted to using Adren

Don't call it addicted, pls, this is subjective.

It is part of the mod. And when you do not like it, play another mod.

It's like to say in Crysis the battle suite is a cheat. It is not. It's part of the game, not more not less.

 

5 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

But dying Engi's cannot build a CP without a med there to revive them.

Having dren also helps the engy.

 

6 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

That obj can be taken with teamwork. It's happened in ETPro and on other servers without Adren since ET has existed.

That is true, teamwork is more important without dren. And it also slows the game down a lot.

When I go from work to play games, I just wanto to relax and have "the speed" value out of there.

Honestly. Without dren I had never played ET and had stayed on Quake 3 Arena.

 

When you don't want to play with dren. FA has a lot of servers without. (But in my count only 2 with, correct me if I am wrong)

 

[-=HipKat=-]

14 minutes ago, ChaOs said:

 

It is part of the mod. And when you do not like it, play another mod.

 

 

When you don't want to play with dren. FA has a lot of servers without. (But in my count only 2 with, correct me if I am wrong)

 

It's an optional add-on at best, but not necessary to play the map, the mod or the game and I hate when people say "play on another server if you don't like it". To me that sounds like 1, you don't value my opinion and 2, you probably don't think I should have an opinion about it.

 

TBH, I don't like Silent mod, NQ is always dead when I play and Jay 1, since more slots were added is just way too chaotic, plus I think I've explained why I like Jay 2 better a few times and that the regulars seem more involved in playing the game, not just spam killing. like you see on Jay 1. For example, a player running around blindly wit his finger on the flame thrower trigger, non-stop seems normal on Jay 1 but that same player comes to Jay 2 and does it and seems annoying and out of place. 

 

(Sorry, not trying to change the subject)

 

  

55 minutes ago, ChaOs said:

not dren in general.

Not FG 42 in general, either

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by -=HipKat=-

[daredevil]

3 hours ago, ChaOs said:

Totally correct. Landmines should have a little more impact - there where reduced from 50 to 30 now and I don't know why. There was a limit by using such a lot of "mana" for only one mine.

 

6 vs 6 and if we have 50 landmines. I really don't think attacking team and can even plant dynos if good engineers keep planting s-mines. I plan to make it, player count based.

[daredevil]

10 hours ago, ElEl said:

I don't see this helping to be honest. Most FG users just do what I said above and get 4-5 kills and then die. When they die their charge goes back to being full so they can just adrenaline straight away again. It's also the reason why limiting the number of adrenaline uses per life wouldn't work. I think all this would do is hinder objective players that use satchel and smoke grenades for team play. I really don't see a solution to the problem.

 

I think, some serious mod changes, required. Something like if you die, your old charge carries over and even though you spawn with it, you can't use it. 

6 hours ago, ElEl said:

I'm strongly against this, I definitely think we should do a poll before we make such a major change. 

Noted. I was more like thinking out loud to add some features in future if possible. 

[ChaOs]

1 minute ago, -=HipKat=- said:

I hate when people say "play on another server if you don't like it".

But this is the fastest options. 

 

2 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

To me that sounds like 1, you don't value my opinion and 2, you probably don't think I should have an opinion about it.

This is not true. I give your opinion a value. This is why we speak here. 

I'll try you explain what is between the lines: FA is loved because it has a lot of variance in servers. One of the variances is dren, another is double jump and so on.

 

6 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

TBH, I don't like Silent mod, NQ is always dead when I play and Jay 1, since more slots were added is just way too chaotic

Yeah maybe the first is dead about this config. And the other one, dunnp.

But think about it: when you disable dren on jay2 there's a big danger being jay2 dead in the future.

So when NQ is dead maybe it is the best way to find players and motivate them to play there.

 

9 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

(Sorry, not trying to change the subject)

U already changed the subject with your first post