ET SILENT #1 Limit Medics and other medic suggestion(s)

[Beeshbum]

I don't know why, but it seems like lately (last month+), Silent1 has become overrun with medics. Many great matches have been ruined because you have what seems like on average 60%+ of a team being medics, and of course that's usually the class of choice of a lot of the really good players that frequent the server. I'd like to suggest that you take one (or both) of the following options:

 

1. Limit the medic class to X percentage of the team. You already limit Panzers to 1, Flamethrower to 1 and 2 or 3 MGs for soldiers, so why not limit medics too which ruin games more than any of those weapons for soldiers do?

• I'd suggest that perhaps limit the medic class to a maximum of 25% (or less). This means that if the server averages 10 players per side, 2 of the 10 could be medics (and 5 of 20, 6 of 25, 7 of 30, etc). That would be plenty in my opinion, and perhaps even too much).

2. Perhaps even adjust max health that medics have.

• HP maxes out at 156hp. That's roughly 25%-50% more than non-medic class.
• An excellent player that typically (or even usually/only) plays medic class, with 156hp, is practically invincible. In fact, I'm not sure I can remember the bulk of the really excellent players on the server being engineers or really anything helpful. A lot of the times they don't even bother healing or reviving others when they play medics as they just play for stats.
• Some can argue that medics SHOULDN'T have more hp than other classes. Some can argue that they should. Not sure I care to suggest whether they should or shouldn't, but I would suggest that the 156hp gets lowered to something more reasonable. Seems like Field Ops max out at perhaps 125hp? Maybe I've seen 135hp, but that might've been another class. I would suggest maxing medics out even at 135hp.

 

Lastly, I'd just like to point out that server rules, banners, and admins are always reminding players to keep the teams fair and that team play is a must. I'd argue that keeping teams fair isn't just about the numbers on each side, but also about keeping the % of medics on each team to a playable value. Not sure I've seen anything kill the server more than having the match just become one big medic war. I've seen, on multiple occasions, a largely full server emptying out fairly quickly because the game just becomes unbearable. Also, like I said before, a lot of the times, forget it when it comes to needing healing or reviving from a medic a lot of the times. A lot of the good players choose medics and only play for stats it seems, so that whole team play rule doesn't really seem to be monitored in that case.

 

Sorry for the long whine. I've whined plenty of times on the server about it but figured I'd put in a more formal "complaint" with what I feel are well thought out points on why I believe medics should be limited not just in numbers but also in their hp. I don't say the following as a means of "threatening to try and get my way", but I've found it less and less enjoyable over the last month or so playing on the server (and I'm guessing the other servers have this issue as well). I'm not sure I can or want to continue playing much longer when seemingly every time I come on to play and have some fun, it just isn't fun because of the ridiculous amounts of medics on the server. It's one thing to get owned constantly by better players. I can handle that and I'm used to that (lol), but when those better players are always medics and you have practically ZERO chance against them, it becomes tiresome.

 

Thanks for reading and considering. Sorry for taking half of your life to get to the end. Hoping some good discussions can come of this, even if no changes are ultimately implemented.

[-=HipKat=-]

ISn't each class already limited on Silent? I'm pretty sure when I've played the Silent servers, there were times I couldn't choose Med and took something else, instead

[RendeL]

Thanks for bringing this to forums. This is the right place to discuss about changes.

 

I have now spent time regularly on s1 and I do see issues there.

However I do not think the issue is the medic class, but ppl who use it. Many times I see teams are compared by kr and by numbers, which is not the only way, not even near how it should be looked.

The /scores tell more closely how teams are and usually I see very bad stacking on axis side, when allies are getting raped. Having 2 more ppl on the losing team is ok. It's not only regulars, but also members who like to be lame, maybe they dont pay enough attention or just want to keep kr or so. This has to be changed, as it is not enjoyable to play there.

 

Today I was playing battery and end scores were 200+ for axis, allies didn't get far. Just makes me wonder what's the point here for fragging on an easily defended map...

 

Giving out lvl's for the regulars who like to help is one step, as i dont see there many lvl 4 just as an example. Other step is that I start to pm members who I see have lack of interest to look for the teams.

 

Together we can make this work, it is not only admins duty to even the teams, but shoutout to fairness from regulars is what we need also alot!

[Beeshbum]

3 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

ISn't each class already limited on Silent? I'm pretty sure when I've played the Silent servers, there were times I couldn't choose Med and took something else, instead

I've never personally seen a class limit on silent. Doesn't mean there aren't any, but I've never come across an inability to be any class I want, nor have I seen any indication that a class is not selectable.

[Beeshbum]

2 hours ago, RendeL said:

Thanks for bringing this to forums. This is the right place to discuss about changes.

 

I have now spent time regularly on s1 and I do see issues there.

However I do not think the issue is the medic class, but ppl who use it. Many times I see teams are compared by kr and by numbers, which is not the only way, not even near how it should be looked.

The /scores tell more closely how teams are and usually I see very bad stacking on axis side, when allies are getting raped. Having 2 more ppl on the losing team is ok. It's not only regulars, but also members who like to be lame, maybe they dont pay enough attention or just want to keep kr or so. This has to be changed, as it is not enjoyable to play there.

 

Today I was playing battery and end scores were 200+ for axis, allies didn't get far. Just makes me wonder what's the point here for fragging on an easily defended map...

 

Giving out lvl's for the regulars who like to help is one step, as i dont see there many lvl 4 just as an example. Other step is that I start to pm members who I see have lack of interest to look for the teams.

 

Together we can make this work, it is not only admins duty to even the teams, but shoutout to fairness from regulars is what we need also alot!

Thanks for your post, but personally, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect people (members or regulars), to be solely responsible for this. I'm guessing whoever set the server up would probably agree as there are other types of limits like panzer and what not. I think it needs to be a server config.

 

All I'm saying is, I think more people leave with a bad taste because of the issue with too many medics versus what would leave if there were a medic limit. Good players are going to be good whether they are medics or soldiers or any other class. Good players are nearly impossible for me and other average players when they are medics and have 156hp.

 

I find myself wanting more playing time most days, but can only stand short bouts of the game due to the medic issue.

[Cross Marian]

Hey Beeshbum,

First of all, thanks for your suggestion! Now let's discuss it ^^

 

I agree with you that sometimes, the objective of the map can be impossible to reach because too many people are playing rambo medics.

However, I don't think that a limit on the number of medics will solve that. The fraggers who play rambo medics will either just quit the server, or they will keep the same play style but with another class.

 

I just also wanted to point out, that, while the main purpose of the game is to win the objective, it is normal to sometimes want to play differently, like fragging, or whatever. We can't expect everyone to always want to play the objective 100%. And, in my opinion, if someone wants to frag and only focus on his XP, who are we to stop him? As long as he doesn't break any server rules.

 

The best solution in my opinion, is to reach out to regulars, get them to help sometimes, talk to them via PM, maybe grant level to the most trusted ones.

I mainly play on Beg2 and Silent1, and I can see that 60% of players are always regulars on the same server. So, if you can get these people to help, it's already a huge part of the problem solving.

 

On 4/26/2020 at 8:44 PM, RendeL said:

Many times I see teams are compared by kr and by numbers, which is not the only way, not even near how it should be looked.

The /scores tell more closely how teams are and usually I see very bad stacking

Currently, when you want to join a team, if they have the same amount of players, you can pick either. If one team has 1 extra player, you can only pick the other.

>> Would it be possible to add a constraint based on the /scores? @RendeL

 

For example, if the scores are (in number of kills) 170 for Axis and 90 for Allies. Then, the game will calculate that Allies need to have 2 extra players to reach an equilibrium.

> So, if I'm in Spectator, and Allies have only 1 extra players, I will only be able to join Allies and not Axis.

> Once Allies have 2 extra players, someone in Spectator, will be able to join either Allies or Axis.

> If Allies have 3 extra players, then someone in Spectator will only be able to join Axis.

[RendeL]

Quite much is possible to do, just need someone to do it first as I dont know lua

[CheepHeep]

On Hardcore it is currently set so that 70% of the team can be medic. People should be able to play the class that they like but at the same time I understand that it is difficult to complete the objective when the teams are completely flooded with medics and barely any other classes. That being said even in competitive gaming, the medic class is taken up the most because it is very important. At most I would limit it to 50% but even then I would be very wary about it. If you make it 25% or less, you are assuming those 25% are good medics that actually heal when in reality it would be an even smaller percentage. You'll find that reviving will become very scarce. The problem isn't with the number of medics  but with the players using medic classes that don't heal or revive their teammates. Changing those mindsets is kind of pointless so all you can do is try and distribute the teams more fairly which is part of what us as admins do. 

 

 

[K.LisTa]

Hi, rambo medic here (well I do play others classes, ask Jay2 regulars how much they like my sten).

 

I do agree that 156hp is too much for public servers, but I don't think you can tweak medics health, I've never seen it on any server.  The only way I can imagine to nerf the medic class is to reduce the total amount or/and the recharge rate of the action bar. That would mean less medpacks to heal themselves (and others as well), thus less agressivity on the battlefield.

 

On beginners 2, I honestly don't know why medics have access to the PPSh-41 btw. It's borderline OP.

 

About levels for regulars, a friendly reminder that lvl 4s and below don't have access to !put command. If you want some help, give us the means to do it. It's not uncommon I have to sit in spec several minutes before having the opportunity to join the weaker side, on jay2 and bg2 mostly. Especially if bots fail to connect to the server.

[daredevil]

My request - can we please have 1 suggestion per topic? I really can't keep my head around the topic when I end up managing 10 servers and for each server their might topic and within topic, suggestions keep going off topic. I seriously, have hard time managing with suggestions. I believe some suggestions are really good and would bring good play changes but I just can't keep up! 

[ktg0000]

This was a question in my old clan. There we abolished the self-healing. I don't think that was a good decision, but it's an option.

On 4/26/2020 at 6:24 PM, Beeshbum said:

Some can argue that medics SHOULDN'T have more hp than other classes. Some can argue that they should.

Every class has its advantage and disadvantage. I don't think the good solution is to cease these advantages. For example, you can have 156 hp, if you walk into an arty, you'll die, etc. Yes, the 156 hp is an advantage in a fair face to face fight. That's all.

And the limit doesn't mean that the medics would heal you or help you with the obj. I think they will be field ops who can't be medic, because of the arty. Then we should deal with the rambo field ops.

[Blurdecai]

9 hours ago, RendeL said:

Quite much is possible to do, just need someone to do it first as I dont know lua

Would like to check that stuff out and see if I can understand it, have some knowledge in C++, and they say Lua is kinda similar to it, if I get it, I could help you guys out a bit more around here.

[Beeshbum]

Unfortunately, I think I'm going to need to take a break from the F|A servers perhaps. I'll swing by every now and then, but I just can't have fun anymore because every map is played with the majority on each side being medics. It's just not even fun or close to what I'm looking for when I play the game. See you guys around, every now and then.

[RendeL]

It's just the name of the game. On s1, I'd say most medics actually do help by reviving, which makes them somewhat usefull to the team. Most ppl who uses medic, knows the game well. On the opposite I see very little objective done by engies, mostly just one or two are on it. Panzer on the other hand, imo those guys are the "fraggers" if you think the big picture out of the teams.

 

This is just a game and I dont think many, if any other servers do limit medics much. If we start doing it, I could say pretty sure we'd have soon quite empty server.

 

I just wonder if you have tried our other servers, maybe there is something more for your liking? Beginners#2 as for example is also silent mod...

[CheepHeep]

@Beeshbum You should honestly try hardcore more because the medics there actually heal and revive so it doesn't feel like a wasted class just used on fragging. A lot of players there do the objective too. We have many servers, try some different ones till you find what you are looking for.  Sad to see you go if you do ...go.