ET Jay #2 REMOVE A VSAY FROM J2

[Graceful]

Me tagging him in my post wasn’t supposed to be included in my sentence. I just meant to tag him in general. 

[CabaL]

6 minutes ago, Gameplan said:

Before this spins down the toilet or in to an English lecture, I don't think @Graceful intended to call you a racist, @captnconcrete. I could be wrong, but the sentence structure does appear she called you one, but not sure if that was a grammatical error.

 

And I agree, racist shit is said all the time in movies and in some video games, but that doesn't excuse it here and the source doesn't make it less so. We removed, "Do you suck d!cks?" and it was from an all-time great movie. Doesn't seem like a stretch we could remove clearly racist statements even if they are in parody. These are expansion packs and are no way related to the original developers intentions either. As far as the slippery slope argument, it's not really a strong one. We can manage our vsay pack with little intervention and the risk/reward supports that. In other words, we stand to lose more players for keeping it there than removing it. Haven't heard one person say I'm quitting Jay if you remove the racist shit. So yeah, it probably never stops because we admin a game server making us responsible for the content (to a point).

 

 

This 100%. If FA has a 0 tolerance policy on racism of any kind, we should remove any racism (and also any homophobic, sexist) vsays or messages from the servers. If the racist, sexist, homophobic pricks gonna get butthurt about it, thats their problem.

[Hitch]

100% agree with @Gameplan and @CabaL. It's so easy for others to dismiss the vsay when it's not aimed at them and as Gameplan said there's a certain responsibility that comes with using such a vsay on a FA server which clearly sends out a bad message. 

[-=HipKat=-]

9 hours ago, Snuffs99 said:

I certainly don't like the idea of people being offended but most of the vsays have been on the servers for a while. 

 

Devils advocate:

You don't like the vsay that mentions the KKK yet you play a game where you can basically play as a Nazi, sure the game has tried to sway away from Nazis by calling them axis but we all know its Nazis ffs.....Does that then mean Jewish people should then be justified to request the entire games removal or would you class that as going a bit overboard as your not offended by Nazis?? Would it be ok if the vsay said to kill the KKK??

 

Equally would it be "ok" to have "They call him boss, boss n***a" if it was a black voice saying it?? I mean come on, black people drop the "n word" in to every other sentence or song etc and that is fine, right?.

 

Sadly i think people find anything to feel "offended" by and to protest over nowadays,,,, will we all eventually have to say sorry for killing one another in a game in case we offend someone? 

If we removed everything that someone could or might be offended by then we might as well just remove the game altogether and have done with it. Exactly where does it stop?

 

Some people may find one thing offensive and another not so much so is it then a case of he or she who feels offended the most wins??

 

 

There's a difference between re-enacting battles from a war, in which the enemy Nazis were vanquished within a few short years and using a term that glorifies 400 years of slavery and 150 years of civil rights violations, violence and persecution based on the color of someone's skin. I got banned for a month and a  half for saying I never banged a Hindu before in main chat and the excuse was racism (Hindu isn't actually a race, BTW, but I digress). If THAT was cause for an extended banning then using the N-Word and talking about joining the KKK should be WAY out of line. And so WHAT how long it's been on the server. Black people were slaves for generations. Does that make it acceptable?

 

We're not talking about body shaming someone or toying with a small segment's personal sensitivities or some Social Justice political BS. It's 100% racist - which btw is considered a civil rights violation in the US.

 

Go down to the 'hood and play those 2 vsays over and over, loud in the middle of the street and see how that works out

2 hours ago, Vice86 said:

 

To provoke and make you even more angry, and if you cant stand it, try these two 🤫

 

/cg_novoicechats 1

/cg_novoicetext 1

The problem with that is then you lose ALL Vsays, including Hello, I need a medic, I need Ammo, etc

Edited October 22, 2020 by -=HipKat=-

[-=HipKat=-]

1 hour ago, captnconcrete said:

u might want too know some one before u call em a racist.. i do take offense to this..personally i think having a debate in here over a vesay in a game shows how weekminded u really are.

I think having a complete lack of empathy or understanding of how something affects other people is a better example of what is weak-ninded

[bLade.]

I myself have African ethnic heritage in my family, and am not in anyway offended because it’s not targeted at me. These vsays were popular in their time, aired on TV to the masses. Did people disagree? Probably. People always do, and they’re entitled to their own opinion. There’s no way to please everyone in any situation especially in today’s day and age. How would you handle a similar scenario in real life? 9 times out of 10, people bite their tongue and move on because people today avoid any real life confrontation or drama because they’re incapable of handling it the proper way. Why is the new ET generation so soft? I was raised on ET and have always found humor in almost every vsay since I was a prepubescent boy. I played this game right around the time I learned to read and write. Sure I understood more as I got older, but if you don’t like it you don’t need to say or do whatever it is you don’t like. It’s history, it’s real life it happened and there’s no changing it. Much like genocide, it happened. There’s no changing it. History cannot be reversed, but you can ignore it and move on. 

 

At the end of the day, I don’t think anybody meant any racist intent while making the vsays. I’m sure it was more of taking the popular sounds and noises etc from that generation. Welcome to the internet ladies and gentlemen. 

[RedBaird]

21 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

"They call him, boss, boss ni**er" vsay

This seems to be the source of the audio clip.  The movie seems to be similar to other "Blaxploitation" movies of the period, which usually involved big-city gun-totin' pimps and other criminals and cops. "Shaft" is the most famous one.   Many, many dramatic shoot-em-ups.  I had never heard of this movie before or heard the 'song' before.

 

 

‘Shaft’ Had Company: 10 Films That Defined the Blaxploitation Era

 

I think that all of the vsay clips should be considered in the context of the movies that they came from. 

 

I feel that "cancel culture" uses very simplistic equations.   Many slogans these days seem to be "mantras of anti-hatred" that ironically give permission to hate.  

 

I feel that hate itself is corrosive, and should be used sparingly.  

 

---

 

BTW, some cultures use "kaka" instead of "haha" and some players may type "kk" for laughter in games  In the USA, that puts people on "high alert".   

Edited October 22, 2020 by RedBaird
typos

[-=HipKat=-]

8 hours ago, bLade. said:

I myself have African ethnic heritage in my family, and am not in anyway offended because it’s not targeted at me. These vsays were popular in their time, aired on TV to the masses. Did people disagree? Probably. People always do, and they’re entitled to their own opinion. There’s no way to please everyone in any situation especially in today’s day and age. How would you handle a similar scenario in real life? 9 times out of 10, people bite their tongue and move on because people today avoid any real life confrontation or drama because they’re incapable of handling it the proper way. Why is the new ET generation so soft? I was raised on ET and have always found humor in almost every vsay since I was a prepubescent boy. I played this game right around the time I learned to read and write. Sure I understood more as I got older, but if you don’t like it you don’t need to say or do whatever it is you don’t like. It’s history, it’s real life it happened and there’s no changing it. Much like genocide, it happened. There’s no changing it. History cannot be reversed, but you can ignore it and move on. 

 

At the end of the day, I don’t think anybody meant any racist intent while making the vsays. I’m sure it was more of taking the popular sounds and noises etc from that generation. Welcome to the internet ladies and gentlemen. 

I don’t know who you’re calling the new ET generation since I’ve been playing since 2008. I’ve only owned and ran popular servers and led clans and been a part of some of the best parts of ETpro over the years.

 

i’m just gonna say again one thing. Go down to the hood in any major American city and start playing those vsays. I have a pretty good idea that that won’t work out very well

Edited October 22, 2020 by -=HipKat=-

[m00jii]

All this fuzz for a few vsays that have been here for ages. @ElEl can you take them out before this escalates any more?

[ElEl]

Well it's been so long since I worked on the pack I forgot what I was doing with it and I really like the vsays on Jay2 as they are now to be fair (not including these ones). My original plan when I was making a new soundpack was to remove the barely used vsays and add some fun ones but I added like 20 too many and didn't wanna trim it down cause they were all so good and then lost motivation. Give me like 30 minutes and I'll just edit the current pack and replace those 2 problem sounds with some other ones and upload it here.

 

I should also add that I vmuted the guy you were complaining about while you were on the server a couple days ago Hipkat, he was spamming far too much and other admins should use this command on him if he chooses to spam different vsays more.

[ElEl]

Well, Rainier's told me not to make any changes to the current pack so I guess those vsays are staying for the time being.

[Hitch]

6 hours ago, bLade. said:

 Why is the new ET generation so soft?

 

Well if I was soft, I wouldn't even be online.

 

It's not about being soft, it's about empathy. I for one, don't play on that server and am not black so it doesn't affect me. If our rules state "no racism of any kind" then we can't have it both ways, it just make us as a community look like a bunch of hypocrites.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Hitch

[-=HipKat=-]

4 hours ago, ElEl said:

Well it's been so long since I worked on the pack I forgot what I was doing with it and I really like the vsays on Jay2 as they are now to be fair (not including these ones). My original plan when I was making a new soundpack was to remove the barely used vsays and add some fun ones but I added like 20 too many and didn't wanna trim it down cause they were all so good and then lost motivation. Give me like 30 minutes and I'll just edit the current pack and replace those 2 problem sounds with some other ones and upload it here.

 

I should also add that I vmuted the guy you were complaining about while you were on the server a couple days ago Hipkat, he was spamming far too much and other admins should use this command on him if he chooses to spam different vsays more.

Yeah I appreciate that. The only thing I had was to put him spec every time he started spamming, which obviously didn't stop him

[Hitch]

8 hours ago, RedBaird said:

This seems to be the source of the audio clip.  The movie seems to be similar to other "Blaxploitation" movies of the period, which usually involved big-city gun-totin' pimps and other criminals and cops. "Shaft" is the most famous one.   Many, many dramatic shoot-em-ups.  I had never heard of this movie before or heard the 'song' before.

 

 

‘Shaft’ Had Company: 10 Films That Defined the Blaxploitation Era

 

I think that all of the vsay clips should be considered in the context of the movies that they came from. 

 

I feel that "cancel culture" uses very simplistic equations.   Many slogans these days seem to be "mantras of anti-hatred" that ironically give permission to hate.  

 

I feel that hate itself is corrosive, and should be used sparingly.  

 

---

 

BTW, some cultures use "kaka" instead of "haha" and some players may type "kk" for laughter in games  In the USA, that puts people on "high alert".   

 

 

I want to say one more thing then I'll shut up about this. 

 

Perhaps you're right. I'll be the first to admit that PC culture is a cancer and ruins most things especially art. Nowadays so many films and tv shows have been ruined because of this.

 

Having said that, my points were in relation to the context of FA in general. If it's about making the servers a pleasant experience and encouraging newcomers to stay then that vsay has no business being there. It adds nothing to the discourse and as I said in my previous post makes us hypocrites. 

[Xiahou Dun]

The n word was created by white people 3 centuries ago, and now white people are lunging at other white people for using a term that is directed at black people, while black people are totally fine calling them like that by other black people among themselves. That's the sad reality we live in.

 

Using an SUBJECTIVELY offensive vsay doesn't mean someone is racist, or supporting KKK or whatever. I guess we should ban all Duke Nukem vsays, no matter what these are, because Duke himself is a sexist person who cracks offensive jokes left and right. I guess we should ban all spanish-speaking players, because in spanish the colour black is "negro" (which is the origins of the n word, by the way) and someone MIGHT feel offended.

 

Some time ago, I was told here on this forum, that either we get offended by everything, or at nothing. While it doesn't sound so noble, just give it some thought. Everyone here has different opinions, that's what makes discussion possible. Doing anything that doesn't offend at least 1 person is simply impossible. I highly doubt the creators of these vsays, or El who put them in the pack had any ill intention while creating them. They're meant for the INTERNET SHOOTING GAME that's been taking it's first steps in someone's basement on a LAN party 17 years ago. And they're not naming any player, or pointing at anyone directly. They just are there, for fun and laughs. And first and foremost for me, they're just quotes from already existing movies and other forms of art. No one is deliberately sitting in front of their PC, booting up a microphone, thinking "Who should I offend today" and recording vile vsays.

 

If someone starts targeting a certain person deliberately, then there will be consequences. If someone is racist, they are muted, kicked, etc. That's what "No racism of any kind" means. We could be here debating over this all day long, but the truth is, as long as something is SUBJECTIVELY deemed offensive, there will be people who are offended, and those who are not.

 

My say on this, is that as long as the vsay doesn't target a specific person, there really shouldn't be that big of a fuss over it. You wouldn't turn off the movie just because someone said an n word in it. These vsays are being just thrown in the general chat, for the heck of it you may say.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Xiahou Dun