My perspective on the [dd] and F|A situation

[Dest!Ny]

Sooooo... 2 topics have been created yesterday, both started because of certain frustrations and both ended without solving such frustrations. 

 

From what has been said you can only conclude that not much progress has been made, the only thing that has happened was fighting and bickering. Not a good start. So now that maybe everyone has calmed down a bit and is able to have a normal conversation with one another.

 

Enough points have been brought up to stop the arguing and get some solutions figured out.

 

Naturally since I technically don't have any influence in what your decisions you are free to do as you please, but if you want to look forward to a stabilizing relationship between both parties then I'm sure all of us would like you to consider what I'm suggesting.

 

 

Also note that this is written purely on personal opinions that don't necessarily correspond with the rest of the clan.

 

 

So of course I admit that our own approach to certain situations is also not very clean, so I want to have the idea of 1 side being right and 1 side being wrong out of the way. We both have wrongs and rights the way I look at it. 

 

 

Chapter 1: The situation.

 

What currently is going on is that we as teammates naturally like to play with each other, I don't think that's very illogical in your eyes. I'm also certain that there are plenty of other people who have a certain someone they love to play with, or maybe against. From what I've seen I'd say clans like $k@ kind of show the same behavior when 2 or more are on the server and I don't really see anything wrong with that. However what we also tend to see happen more and more is that admins ask specifically us to move teams, in certain situations I really don't see an issue here don't get me wrong. If a certain team really is down by a lot and the only good option is one of us then I can personally see a very good reasoning behind the admin's actions. Although the real problem is that sometimes there are in fact other options. There are plenty of players who are just as capable of killing people as us. To name a few: entire $k@ clan, entire <>< clan, Bunny, Noober, Nightmare, entire ,=- clan etc. Even though these options sometimes are available to admins it still occurs they ask on of dd to join. Therefore I would like to request that in these situations, BECAUSE we like to play with each other that admins also think about what WE want. If there are 3 people that would be a sufficient swap, and 2 of those are dd, maybe you can consider to move the 3rd guy sometimes, this way you also keep it fun for us. Perhaps this would also result in some of dd feeling more reluctant to help YOU out sometimes.

 

 

Chapter 2: Confirmation bias. 

 

I can't imagine a more perfect scenario then what happened today. First of all, I think you all realize that stacking teams isn't something ordered by the higher ups in the clan or something like that, therefore I also want you to realize that every member of dd is a different case. Thus I would like for you to ask yourself if you really think that Adeby, of all people, would be the person to stack teams. If you think this is the case you haven't been paying enough attention because he is the exact opposite. What happened today is a lot more than what you can see from your screenshot, I assume there is more proof in the private sections but for every other reader I would like to point this fact out. 

 

The observation I made was that it all more or less escalated after minas on Goldrush, IIRC at the start of the map there was outlaw, Adeby, trout on allies; me on axis. After a while my team got overrun and teams got uneven so trout and Adeby joined axis (trout joined by himself, Adeby got put). After a little while axis started gaining a lot of ground and after outlaw left the server allies got utterly outclassed. Then the point came where admins found it necessary to move things again but since the weaker side this time had the bigger amount of players a putteam had to be used. Once again Adeby was moved to allies. I don’t see why you would need to move him multiple times when there was both me and trout available, I believe certain people pressed many times that admins aren’t supposed to “bully” people with the putteam command or in any other way. This combined with the accusations of stacking and whining is naturally not fun for any player so Adeby started "messing around" as you can clearly make up from the way Swixz formulated his words. So now you have "proof" that he is a stacker "all along" where in reality this was perhaps the first time he did it consciously and for the very purpose of stacking.

 

 

Chapter 3: Our possibilities.

 

None of us are admins, none of us are able to putteam ourselves to the weaker team if that team has more players, nor is it our duty to even teams to join the weaker team if teams get stacked AFTER we joined a team. What’s tends to happen is that even though the map starts out on even grounds (let’s say 3v2 important players), however one of the latter side decides to leave. Suddenly it is 3v1 and the single guy can't hold the scores equal by himself and some or many of his teammates leave the server. This is NOT a situation where anyone stacked the teams, yet we sometimes get accused for it in these scenarios. The other situation as mentioned is where the weaker side has 1 or 2 extra players and one of us just joined the server. Is it, as simple regular, our duty to wait till a spot comes free on the weaker side? I don't believe so. Is it our duty to sit in spec? I don't believe so. Plenty of people join the server and join a random team, yet when we do it we get flamed. Now it is also not your duty to let teams be as they are after we are forced to join the team with less players. In my beliefs it is your duty to putteam the new player as soon as possible without making a fuss out of it because he did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

 

Chapter 4: Our general position. 

 

Of course what comes our way is not only stacking accusations but also whining. This does not apply for every member but for some it applies heavily. This has a couple of reasons aside from sometimes just behavioral issues. First of all as a clan we get a lot of shittalking from the people on the server, not a day seems to go by without someone ridiculing us which can kind of get to some. I can confirm that it is surely not a very nice experience when everyone has a negative bias towards you even though you are trying your best. The other big factor is the amount of distrust we seem to get from some admins. Some in our clan truly feel mistreated by admins and that should really not be that way. I can imagine your perspective is that it is just another troublemaker being put in place but in reality that is not the case. Often enough we get cornered into feeling forced to counter the arguing going on which then gets blamed on us. This is really the most unfair thing that is happening, random players are constantly trying to get a reaction out of us, and when finally we decide to dive into the argument we (or both) are the people that get punished or warned. Maybe it's an idea that some more warnings could be handed out towards people being disrespectful because by the way things look now I can only imagine that you let it slip because you feel like agreeing with them which is really messed up.

 

 

Chapter 5: The chronological order.

 

There is a certain order of events what resulted in this whole situation. In the beginning of the resurrection of dd there was already a mishap, which was the ban of Swixz because of recruiting, it is only natural that an event like this puts everyone already on edge. Soon after this the stacking accusations started flying around, this is made possible by multiple reasons I stated in chapter 1 and 3. At this point a small bit of hate already started flowing through regulars which would only escalate and escalate after more and more people, both regular and admin started liking the idea that dd was a rating clan that generally stacked the teams in order to get an as high as possible rate. None of this is true. It did not take long before light flaming against us became a general thing and has apparently been permitted. Biased opinions became more and more apparent and to avoid trouble some of us at that point had decided to stop talking at all on server, which by itself is already pretty crazy. But even after some of us did all they could to prevent any form of provoking the situation didn't change which for some meant that the only resort they felt like having was to fight back. Right now the situation is as bad as it has been now that every uneven situation is seen as intentional stacking and every discussion is seen as whining and arguing. This is why I requested the points I have and most of all requested an understanding of my point of view.

 

 

Chapter 6: The conclusions

 

If both you and us want this endless arguing to stop I can only suggest the compromises I'm trying to make, because using more and more admin powers against us will not by a mile solve this problem the way it should be solved. It really isn't a big hassle to try and comprehend our motives and reasoning and try to meet interests. In my time in F|A it was not abnormal to keep certain interests in mind before deciding who to move to the opposite team, and I hope those times haven't passed. I hope you, as an admin, still hold high the ideal of wanting players to come back and wanting players to feel comfortable on your servers. If this ideal is not anymore of your interest, then I am afraid we will never meet terms and for some of our members this will eventually lead to sanctions they don't deserve. And for people that have a bit of trouble with English, this is not a threat, this is a pleading.

 

 

 

 

I hope you are able to expand your vision about the full situation with this post. It is a post written perhaps very subjectively and perhaps selfishly in certain parts, but it is also an honest request which I would appreciate to be respected.

 

 

-Dest, member of one of the currently most disliked clans

[Mr.Karizmatic]

First of all hello destiny , nice to see you. 

 

For what i have seen in this topic you made and the plead you made.

 

And its my opinion not F|A opinion.

 

You were part of this clan and you know how F|A try to handle the stackers and whiners and any trouble makers till date. None of the admins have an agenda just to move dd clan guys . There is no full proof method on how to keep teams fair, cause we cant keep the teams fair 100% all the time. We can only make the teams equally playable. Most of the time alot of admins try to use /scores and sometimes xp and sometimes skills. We cant just look into skills or scores or xp. It depends on each situation. And each situation is different than other. 

 

As for you point 2. where u said adeby was moved. If i was there, i would have done the same, cause the last person who moved ( yeah i know adeby moved to balance ) , its better to move them back or ask them so teams will be back to normal.and if you were willing to move, you could have said it to an admin who moved that, hey i want to switch could you put adeby back. problem solved.

 

 

If people try to start arguing with you guys or try to make you guys mad , then its better to take proof and come to forums and report it , Arguing back with trolls will just make you equal .  You know our rules, F|A always say dont feed trolls. If they are provoking you , take ss post on forums and we will warn those guys and if they still continue we will mute them. This is how it always works. You arguing doesnt help anyone, and make you look the same.

your clan has done stuff which made us to think on somethings and take a closer look. 

 

At the end : 

 

We all play this game for fun and to keep ET alive and to have fun. Having issue between the clans doesnt resolve anything. Its upto DD and staff+ . 

[Platonic]

So to clarify - Dest asked me to re-open the topic on admin abuse because he had written a reply. I told him he could make a new topic here if he didn't have proof of admin abuse.

 

I told him I would close the topic but as long as the conversation stays civilized I see no need for it.

 

As for the content of the above book, I will not comment. Not because I don't have an opinion but because I can't read it thoroughly because I have other books to read for my exam

[L3ftY.]

hey dest, nice post imo. just a couple of points i need to clarify i may...

 

 

 

respecting (all) players and enforcing fair play. that's all FA want on the servers. and if it means upsetting some players because teams need to be balanced while keeping the server fair then so be it. stackers are never tolerated.

 

tbh i could care less if all the dd clan were on one team and the rest of the server were on the other, as long as the teams are fairly even. that's all that matters.

 

and respecting admin and other players on our servers...does it really need to become an issue? if shit gets thrown around and insults are the norm when a clan visits FA servers we naturally would tend to get our backs up and protect 'our turf', if you will. belittle or insult an FA admin and your only asking for some serious attention. and of course this would lead to additional measures where the entire clan is watched and treated the same.

 

but overall these things can easily be resolved with some basic communication and understanding...we hope.

 

 

/respect_and_fairplay

[mayan]

hey dest, nice post imo. just a couple of points i need to clarify i may...

 

 

 

respecting (all) players and enforcing fair play. that's all FA want on the servers. and if it means upsetting some players because teams need to be balanced while keeping the server fair then so be it. stackers are never tolerated.

 

tbh i could care less if all the dd clan were on one team and the rest of the server were on the other, as long as the teams are fairly even. that's all that matters.

 

and respecting admin and other players on our servers...does it really need to become an issue? if shit gets thrown around and insults are the norm when a clan visits FA servers we naturally would tend to get our backs up and protect 'our turf', if you will. belittle or insult an FA admin and your only asking for some serious attention. and of course this would lead to additional measures where the entire clan is watched and treated the same.

 

but overall these things can easily be resolved with some basic communication and understanding...we hope.

 

 

/respect_and_fairplay

 

Fair and respectful opinion, but think of how we feel too when we're getting belittled or insulted or ridiculed

[Kooki]

Im kind of a believer in total punishment.  If one person in a group does something really wrong but no one will own up to it then the whole group gets punished equally.  I have no idea what this is all about and should keep my ideas to my self but,  I suggest that the whole game be discontinued from our servers and by doing that neither group gets what they want and everyone is unhappy but are forced to live with the problems caused by all.  This comes mostly from the service where the whole squad, wing, flight or what ever gets punished becasue of the one.  Also in an effort to teach young children the consequence of failure to own up to your own errors. This way everyone is dissatisfied since no satisfaction can be reached by  either side.

[L3ftY.]

Fair and respectful opinion, but think of how we feel too when we're getting belittled or insulted or ridiculed

 

the road goes both ways...we cant react to a situation if we aren't aware of it. 

 

let us know and if any FA admin disrespects anyone including members of dd, let me know immediately and i will take care of it

Edited January 31, 2018 by L3ftY.

[CheepHeep]

Im kind of a believer in total punishment.  If one person in a group does something really wrong but no one will own up to it then the whole group gets punished equally.  I have no idea what this is all about and should keep my ideas to my self but,  I suggest that the whole game be discontinued from our servers and by doing that neither group gets what they want and everyone is unhappy but are forced to live with the problems caused by all.  This comes mostly from the service where the whole squad, wing, flight or what ever gets punished becasue of the one.  Also in an effort to teach young children the consequence of failure to own up to your own errors. This way everyone is dissatisfied since no satisfaction can be reached by  either side.

lol wat

[Platonic]

Oh I really hoped it would take longer than an hour before I locked this

You know I have a sixth sense in my little toe? My little toe says tension is rising... /locked

[daredevil]

=F|A= and dd are not husband and wife or butt buddies - so I will not address the topic/situation as that title says nor I will take any participation in the conversation in that sense.  For me those are just clan tags and I will leave it as is.

 

1. Fair game play - stacking not allowed - I have made my stance clear - https://fearless-assassins.com/topic/92032-fa-boduko/?p=796637

 

Above goes for all players - we opt for fair play for all players. Being in any clan or not is not the concern here. This is 21st Century - Word plays together - so if someone just want to play with their clan buddies - they can host local server and/or play on private servers. And yes in that =F|A= is also included. The only time =F|A= are or any clan’s are allowed to stack is on 'game days'. That's the only exception for any clan because it's fun event and we allow players playing with their own groups. Just pick the sides Axis/Allies and have fun on i.e. only 'during' wars. If during game day - regular play is resumed - fair play rules will be enforced. Even =F|A= are not allowed stack - so the Q of clan shouldn't arise here. Players first.

 

2. Whinning - See above topic - I included example as well. Nothing to do - with dd or any other clan. If someone whines or causes issue - they will be deal accordingly - Don't expect admins to keep warning repeated offenders every single time. Note key word 'repeated offenders'. Ain't got no time to baby sit whinners. I believe no admin would do that in long run. Admins like to play as well. Admins are not baby sitters. 

 

3. Bias -  I would call that a complete BS. When we act – we act based on player and we don’t care what tags they have. Same goes within =F|A= community. Everyone gets treated based on their behavior. More or less if I would be really bias - by now I would have banned couple of dd members based on their past cheat history. So far I haven't and that's because their is 'no' bias here. So nothing like against dd. It’s just a myth or misconception created by some. If someone doesn’t believe in that – to bad, can’t do much.  I am just making my side clear.

 

Exception for above  - When any clan exceeds more then 70-80% cheaters in their community - I would ban all their clan members under cheating because I ain't got no time to keep watching cheaters group. When 7 out of 10 players of any clan are cheaters or past cheaters and 3 good players decide to join that clan - then to me either they are ok with cheating players and/or they want to cheat and/or they will start cheating. If you join any bad gang and when police crack down happens - police will not check your ID - it will be plain firing. Yes 3 good players can play back once they decided to leave that cheating clan. 

 

4. Don’t poke admins for fun – End result wouldn’t be in your favor and that I can guarantee you. Once I get tired of poking – I will not negotiate or talk, I will ban straight up because I can and there is nothing stopping me from doing that. But then again it would be just that player. I have much higher tolerance limit compare to other admins but it might vary from admin to admin. Screenshot taken from dd clan website -  So I suggest you talk to your members on it. 

https://www.screencast.com/t/3FPPI1oUfuV

 

5. Admin abuse – If any of =F|A= members mistreat or does admin abuse – please report on forums and that goes without saying me this. As long as proof is valid – action will be taken. You might not see immediate results sometime but behind the scenes, warning does get send out. As always I believe in fair play – so if 1 admin uses admin commands – 100 times right so far – and if trouble makers get plenty of warns we even cut some slack for admins as well and give them some time to improve. But if anyone uses kick or ban or put for their own benefits – there is no slack and might end up removing admin from clan. Have done that before and will keep doing that. Admin abuse is not tolerated in any fashion or shape. But admins are humans as well and they can have bad day too so keep that in mind. We don't leave family members behind. Before kicking out from house, family member get's good enough chances for improvement - might get temp demoted and they can earn the levels back. Friends are most imp thing in my life so I treat all respectfully, as much as I can. All clan members are my friend until they cross the line and move on to dark side.

 

I hope that clear things up. Any questions/concerns - 'Contact Us' is always open for everyone.