Jehovah< Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Sup guys, It seems kind of weird to me how some admins are able to ban players, but are not able to shuffle teams? A couple of minutes ago I was playing on the Hardcore server, when teams were very uneven.. I asked Mike Hunt if he could shuffle next map, but he told me he couldn't. I asked him how long he's been in FA, and he told me one year.. Shouldn't a one year member/admin be allowed to shuffle? I've experienced this earlier when playing with Yatzi and it was quite annoying that he couldn't shuffle.. having the power to ban players seems way more likely to be abused, than shuffling teams right? I think if you have the power to ban a player, you should also be able to shuffle teams. Let me know what you guys think, Thanks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krayzie Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Time in clan means nothing. It is how much effort the player puts into making the clan better, and helping out around. You could be here for 5 years and not have more then normal level if you are innactive, or not very mature to the extent where we think you cannot handle more admin level. Shuffle is more likely to be abused I think. Players will be, "Oh hey, I don't like these teams. !shuffle." or !shuffle in the middle of the map. Shuffling is not as vital as banning hackers, so therefor !ban is given. Although I think ban should be moved up higher. I've been in previous clans where new members, and trials you would have to get promoted 2-3 times before getting ban or shuffle. Which I think shuffle and ban should both be given started on 15. But thats just my opinion of the matter. Shuffle should only be given to the maturist and most helpful on servers. Ban can be undone as well, shuffles cant although they are minor compared to a ban. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraveDigger Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Krayzie is correct. Shuffle command can be very abused. To the point where it drives people away. I understand that when nobody with the shuffle command is on the server at the time its needed it can be very annoying. Nobody wants to play with uneven teams except stackers and raters. I believe that even if an admin does not have the shuffle command they stil have !putteam command so the situation can still be adjusted. I think that if you have ANY ADMIN LEVELS AT ALL then you should change teams when asked. THose are the players that I move when teams are not balanced. If they cry about it then its easy enough to have somebody remove whatever levels that they do have. I am refering to clan friends and such. People with level 1, 2, 3 etc..... If a person is unwilling to help out then they deserve to be level zero. It should make no difference whos friend they are or who they know. F|A strives to keep our servers fair and fun for all. No exceptions. Usually though...., if you just ask " Can 1 person come axis please?" Somebody will move. Our servers have enough regulars that have been playing here long enough that somebody usually steps up to the plate and helps out. You may have to ask more than once but usually somebody helps and changes teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckun Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Our level systems are carefully planned by the Leaders and Founders of the clan and I think they work well as they are. We have tight policies on !shuffling which require a combination of rules, common sense, and a combined understanding of players for and against a shuffle.. We really don't want everyone !shuffling because even though shuffle is a great command, it's also annoying. Even if you WANT a shuffle it can be a pain in the ass being set as soldier because there's too many of your chosen class all of a sudden.. We don't want people getting annoyed. There's auto-shuffle on silent mod where you play too >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladykris Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Not trying to go against the grain here, but I thought I would say my piece. I think time in the clan does matter. Time is precious. As you spend more time in the clan you get to know more people and learn in general how things work/ when teams are uneven based on skill and/or numbers. Anyway back on topic. Lately there has been lots of controversy over who gets shuffle, who can ask for shuffle and so on. Sometimes its hard to find a higher level admin to give the teams a good shuffle when teams are getting unbalanced and its hard not to look like 'the bad guy' when you start moving people around to make the teams more fair. *Incoming opinion alert* I think that the shuffle command should be given out to those people that can show they can be trusted with it, but the problem with that logic is no one is given the chance to show they can handle it. Not just our members but also our clan friends that have been around a long time should be given the opportunity if they so desire. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jehovah< Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) I definitely understand what you guys are saying, and shuffle can indeed be abused. This problem can be solved with !putteam, but I actually only see this happening when teams are uneven in numbers. Of course the teams can never really be a 100% even, but I do think that admins should put more effort into evening them via !putteam when teams are just too uneven in skill. I do agree with LadyKris, for example: I am 100% certain the admins I mentioned (Yatzi and Mike Hunt) are perfectly capable of being trusted with the !shuffle command. And if an admin abuses it, it'll get noticed quickly and appropiate action can be taken. !putteam can solve this problem, but I'd like to see admins use it when it is necessary. I think it scares quite some new players off when they get totally raped... and it's just not fun being in a (badly) losing team. Other than that, I think the admins are doing a good job and I enjoy playing in your servers. Edited August 13, 2012 by Jhvh< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docfr8 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 There is many instances when a !shuffle could have been utilized while I was on the server. I would ask other admins onboard if they had the capability, but come up empty handed. I agree, !shuffle does get abused by people, and it boils down to the admin's judgement. There are many variables for a !shuffle.. Knowing the players onboard and skill levels are probably the most important aspect. Never !shuffle midmap (stirring the pot of unhappy players), and always !shuffle in the start of the map during intermission. I typically do a !howfair to see the players strengths before I join up on a team. There are people that dont like the shuffle because they enjoy with playing with certain players perhaps. Thats all fine and dandy, but when !putteam is utilized, people dont like it, especially if they dont want to switch. It is always best to ask someone from the opposite team to switch (more skilled player) in private message. I tend to get a better reaction from players when I ask them to help out on a team that has a lower skillset of players. All in all.. !Shuffle would be nice if utilzed correctly and not abused by the people who are given the authority to utilze the command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Not trying to go against the grain here, but I thought I would say my piece. I think time in the clan does matter. Time is precious. As you spend more time in the clan you get to know more people and learn in general how things work/ when teams are uneven based on skill and/or numbers. Anyway back on topic. Lately there has been lots of controversy over who gets shuffle, who can ask for shuffle and so on. Sometimes its hard to find a higher level admin to give the teams a good shuffle when teams are getting unbalanced and its hard not to look like 'the bad guy' when you start moving people around to make the teams more fair. *Incoming opinion alert* I think that the shuffle command should be given out to those people that can show they can be trusted with it, but the problem with that logic is no one is given the chance to show they can handle it. Not just our members but also our clan friends that have been around a long time should be given the opportunity if they so desire. Time doesn't matter at all to be honest, look at Valentino for example. He's been here longer than I have, does it mean he is good for shuffle or higher admin lvl than me? It's all about the contribution towards the community to be honest. After all, you can always use "contact" button and ask for that command, everybody is free to ask for it but eventually, it's management team who decides wether you get it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladykris Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Time doesn't matter at all to be honest, look at Valentino for example. He's been here longer than I have, does it mean he is good for shuffle or higher admin lvl than me? It's all about the contribution towards the community to be honest. That is my point. Time is precious. No one wants to waste their time. I'm guessing he is a special case but most other members do their best to help out and keep things even. This was specifically towards those members who play and spend quite a bit more time on the server than yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 That is my point. Time is precious. No one wants to waste their time. I'm guessing he is a special case but most other members do their best to help out and keep things even. This was specifically towards those members who play and spend quite a bit more time on the server than yourself. Those members can always use a contact button and ask for anything they want to. Most of people are scared of higher admins, we don't bite. Read the quotation in my signature, we are the same, don't look at lvls, just have fun and enjoy your time in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladykris Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Those members can always use a contact button and ask for anything they want to. Most of people are scared of higher admins, we don't bite. Read the quotation in my signature, we are the same, don't look at lvls, just have fun and enjoy your time in the community. Easy to say when you are already at the top. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scream Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I don't want to argue with you but just so you know, I didn't become a co-leader because I was sarcastic towards others or disappointed but because of my work devoted to the community. I don't look down on members or regulars (maybe on trolls lol) and I don't consider myself as a higher/better person than somebody else, so I don't know why others are scared to ask for something. There are people with lvl 14 that I would gladly give my positive vote regarding the shuffle command, all they have to do is use a contact button and ask for it as it was said plenty of times already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antichrist Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 When you think about time in a clan, and think an admin should have more commands based solely on time, think about a job. Just because an employee has been somewhere for 10 years.. does it mean they deserve a raise? I work with plenty of people who have been there longer than me. They call in sick several times per month, they do the bare minimum so they don't get fired, and when the boss is gone, they're watching movies, surfing the web.. doing anything except what they're supposed to. Our Founders, Leaders, and Co-Leaders know what they're doing. There IS a reason some people are promoted, and others are not. The shuffle command can easily be abused for someone's own benefit just because they don't like their team. I'm not saying the admins you mentioned don't DESERVE a promotion to be able to shuffle... But maybe the higher admins want to see a little more so they can EARN the promotion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipsy Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 @topic Reconsider admins' rights to shuffle teams? Today's admin right came out after too much consideration, past experiences and 4-5 times changing admin lvl system already. Thanks for your time , but no ... not today , but in near future if we feel there is any need we will surely look into it. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masa_1964 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I agree on that at shuffle command is demanding and sometimes difficult to handle to please everyone on server. Cause its based on xp and not for k/r or skill. But when see clear domination from other side and no one will balance when asked and when xp amounts supports shuffle command usage then it works. But mainly just asking people to balance and putteam are much usable commands. In my experience shuffle just create massive stacking and if there is only few admins to follow who was on what team its bit hard to handle. My humble cents on issue. Masa_1964 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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