Panzer damage - Silent #1

[daredevil]

5 minutes ago, Orfendeus said:

you could also use jay1's rule of every few maps stop using panzer, there are many who use it(me too) but I have seen people who use it for hours at a time.

 

@kajto3 This is the case if you have some free time, would appreciate your help i.e. put a counter against player, store against map session and on 3rd map, remove the panzer from their selection OR show message not available to them. This way it's not admin forcing rules vs being enforced by server. 

 

This is one of the good suggestion.  On jaymod we have set to 3 maps under 'Sharing is caring' because it's 1 panzer across the team. 

[Bobby52]

Silent feels fairly well balanced, if you gave some of the guys on the server a PPSH to go with their Rambo medic playstyle, they would be unstoppable.  I'm not sure how much tweaking you guys want to do but just cycling the panzer around to other players every map or few maps will maybe be decent solution. Some players can lead shots a lot better then others and when those guys are racking up kills map after map that's usually when guys start getting irritated. 

[PHNTM]

3 hours ago, daredevil said:

 

In order to solve the issue, my thoughts below:

 

1. Restrict panzer based on player count. We can control quickly based on overall count while loading the map. Then if required we can do based on 'active' player count. We added custom option on Jaymod and probably back port to silent 1. 

2. I feel it's more of 4 vs 4 playing, I keep getting killed by panzer - it might be annoying. If 12 vs 12 - someone might kill the panzer guy and it's less annoying.  So in this case #1 helps. 

3. We shouldn't mix fixing map specific issue vs panzer killing issue but I am onboard fixing map spawn times to make more pleasant. 

4. One thing, we can try is lower panzer damage radius. It's on default. We can make it bit less, so panzer user needs to be little more accurate. -- This change needs to be done live, so we can introduce custom command. What we can do is when you are on server, you can change and get live feedback or monitor but each map, I will reset. So in case if you forget, it will auto reset, till you confirm the number which everyone likes. 

5. For map issue: We can try to back port Jaymod mapping stats i.e. for Each map, it tells us, who won and kills by team. So you will have rough estimate, if team lost why they lost. That will help to fix granular map spawn times. 

 

At the end of the day, no matter what we do - someone is going to complain because they got killed by panzer 10 times during their 5 hr game play. In that case, I just ignore because not much can be done as it's just player not able to take his death!  And at that point, they just call us assholes for not doing anything but in reality they are just being b***. That's our life  

 

This is good 👍👍

 

Fixing spawn times would be very welcome. Beerrun needs this revision desperately, capturing the first flag feels impossible sometimes.

Edited May 16, 2023 by PHNTM

[kajto3]

5 hours ago, daredevil said:

 

@kajto3 This is the case if you have some free time, would appreciate your help i.e. put a counter against player, store against map session and on 3rd map, remove the panzer from their selection OR show message not available to them. This way it's not admin forcing rules vs being enforced by server. 

 

This is one of the good suggestion.  On jaymod we have set to 3 maps under 'Sharing is caring' because it's 1 panzer across the team. 

I'll see what can be done - once I'm back to Lua stuff.

Remove panzer from a player on third map - and restrict him from taking it again for how long? 

[bigbro]

10 hours ago, kajto3 said:

I'll see what can be done - once I'm back to Lua stuff.

Remove panzer from a player on third map - and restrict him from taking it again for how long? 

on jay1 its 3 maps with panzer and  then 3 with out

[daredevil]

11 hours ago, kajto3 said:

I'll see what can be done - once I'm back to Lua stuff.

Remove panzer from a player on third map - and restrict him from taking it again for how long? 

 

1 map pls. i.e. Every 4th maps, players A get notified and looses the panzer. So total 3 maps player A can have panzer. 

 

It's available to grab for other players. On 4th map, counter is zero for player A. On 5th map, player A can pick panzer again if available.  Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, bigbro said:

on jay1 its 3 maps with panzer and  then 3 with out

 

No. 3 with panzer and 4th without. I am just guessing you made typo. 

[yaku]

8 minutes ago, daredevil said:

No. 3 with panzer and 4th without. I am just guessing you made typo. 

 

 

Naah, it's 3 panzer maps in a row and 3 maps of cooldown when player can't pick up a panzer. Also you play 1 map with panzer and give it to someone else = you have 3 maps cooldown either. It was made to avoid players give panzer between each other.

 

[daredevil]

14 hours ago, Bobby52 said:

PPSH to go with their Rambo medic playstyle, they would be unstoppable

 

Ok - let's not mix panzer conversation with PPSH. Please open separate topic. In past, i had shared some details around it. We can review it again if required because I know this topic doesn't happen often i.e. for PPSH. 

 

I am hesitant sometimes to engage in conversation when I know the outcome based on past discussions, not once, multiple times. 

 

But PPSH we can re-visit and it's Ok to make a suggestion but it's up to us to implement it. Just sharing up

[daredevil]

9 minutes ago, yaku said:

Naah, it's 3 panzer maps in a row and 3 maps of cooldown when player can't pick up a panzer. Also you play 1 map with panzer and give it to someone else = you have 3 maps cooldown either. It was made to avoid players give panzer between each other.

 

 

It's same to what I mentioned. You can have panzer for 3 maps before giving up i.e. on 4th. You don't need to give it up on 3rd map. 

 

I see the confusion and may be we need to update wiki: Cooldown is only at play if someone is using for another 3 maps. But if it's available on 5th map because no one is using it, after sometime tried on 4th map, we shouldn't be stopping user. 

 

Further clarification:

Player A shouldn't spam Player B to get his panzer back. Player A needs to be patient, till it's available again. 

 

[Cross Marian]

11 hours ago, kajto3 said:

I'll see what can be done - once I'm back to Lua stuff.

Remove panzer from a player on third map - and restrict him from taking it again for how long? 

Agreed with DD.

 

I don’t know what works best on Jay1, but if we try this on S1, my opinion is that it should be:

 

If a player uses panzer for 3 maps in a row, then on the fourth map, he won’t be able to use panzer. On the fifth map, if the panzer is available, he can use it again (new cycle).

 

 

To be honest, I feel that panzer is not really an issue on S1. Players skills are pretty good overall and most panzer guys don’t have great stats at the end of a game.
80% of the time, panzer is played by a player with average skills or lower. And the last 20% it’s played by a good player who just wants to have fun for 1 or 2 maps.

[kajto3]

How exactly is it implemented on Jaymod? Is it Lua or some jaymod specific feature?

 

I've been thinking about potential abuses, ways players can bypass weapon checks... But that's technical details, perhaps gonna discuss privately with DD

[daredevil]

29 minutes ago, kajto3 said:

How exactly is it implemented on Jaymod? Is it Lua or some jaymod specific feature?

 

 

Jaymod has our custom LUA implementation. We didn't got enough time to automate it. Jaymod is using custom LUA as a part of our AC implementation. So its manual enforce on Jay1 - pain in da ass in my book. Props to jaymod admins. 

 

NQ and SILENT mod both support LUA natively. So if you can implement, it will be used against NQ, SILENT and NITMOD. Might need some mod specific tweaks if required. Later, we can back port to Jaymod but not all functions of LUA are exposed in our implementation. 

[Orfendeus]

1 hour ago, Cross Marian said:

 

 

 

To be honest, I feel that panzer is not really an issue on S1. Players skills are pretty good overall and most panzer guys don’t have great stats at the end of a game.
80% of the time, panzer is played by a player with average skills or lower. And the last 20% it’s played by a good player who just wants to have fun for 1 or 2 maps.

thats the point on my suggestion, usually low skill people use panzer or other soldier guns but every map? others players want to play with these guns too

even I get bored using smg all day xd

[Gengis]

On 5/15/2023 at 4:39 PM, Cross Marian said:

Map: Beerrun

This map is a giant bottleneck, but the real problem is the first Axis flag that allies have to capture.

My suggestion: if the player count is 6 vs 6 or higher (or maybe 7v7), Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Map: Gold Rush

Issue: When the bank is open, last Axis spawn. Axis win this map 9 times out of 10.

My suggestion: if the player count is 7 vs 7 or higher, Axis spawn time should be increased.

Beerrun is 50-50 i would say so the axis flag is not that much of a problem for me.

 

Gold rush is like you say won 9 times out of 10 by the axis.

But it is played a lot.

So we should keep it and increase the axis spawn time.

 

Gengis