Evening Teams Revisited

[-=HipKat=-]

7 hours ago, Gato said:

10 years later and nothing has changed. I learned that it seems like some of FA have favorite players and those never get moved, doesn't matter how uneven the scores are.

Cough cough ....db.....

[-=HipKat=-]

6 hours ago, RNGesus said:

Could you provide an example of this? While I notice it’s common place to move some players that may be more even tempered and understand balance and avoid moving players that throw temper tantrums. However who and when seems to be at the sole discretion of the admin.

Sure, last night (or maybe Wednesday, I'm old) on Jay 1, Axis was down several players I think it was BBA Castle, Butters came on and called to even, I suggest db, who NEVER moves, ever, which just him moving would have been a major balancing in itself. 

 

Quote

The only actionable item would be if admin was abusing the move to target a specific player. If this is the case we have a form  and forum for this I'm happy to provide you a link to

 

My dude, the perception, whether right or wrong, is that you guys do not police each other. I won't open a closed can of worms, won't say names, etc., but I SO could, and no one ever did anything except make me out to be the bad guy, Specifically, one night, I joined the serrver, it was warmup for G_rush, Allies were down 1 player so I joined allies and before the map actually started, I got moved to Axis. That was not the only time and it was always the same person. 

But that's all I'm saying out of fear of being targeted again.

Edited March 7 by -=HipKat=-

[RNGesus]

40 minutes ago, -=HipKat=- said:

Sure, last night (or maybe Wednesday, I'm old) on Jay 1, Axis was down several players I think it was BBA Castle, Butters came on and called to even, I suggest db, who NEVER moves, ever, which just him moving would have been a major balancing in itself. 

 

 

My dude, the perception, whether right or wrong, is that you guys do not police each other. I won't open a closed can of worms, won't say names, etc., but I SO could, and no one ever did anything except make me out to be the bad guy, Specifically, one night, I joined the serrver, it was warmup for G_rush, Allies were down 1 player so I joined allies and before the map actually started, I got moved to Axis. That was not the only time and it was always the same person. 

But that's all I'm saying out of fear of being targeted again.

We do try to police ourselves. We need properly filled out reports to investigate these sorts of issues. As all of FA wants its player base to enjoy the game and our servers. Also you should not fear being targeted. Members are held to a higher standard than retaliating against someone bringing up an issue when your concern weather it right or wrong is an attempt to improve the player bases experience.

 

edit*

I might add we are are also volunteers and players ourselves. We are not incapable of error and if this is indeed an issue the specific admin whoever that may be might be entirely unaware that a certain player is always targeted to move. Your actually helping us do a better job filling out those forms which is what we all strive for

Edited March 7 by RNGesus

[captnconcrete]

11 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

Sure, last night (or maybe Wednesday, I'm old) on Jay 1, Axis was down several players I think it was BBA Castle, Butters came on and called to even, I suggest db, who NEVER moves, ever, which just him moving would have been a major balancing in itself. 

 

 

My dude, the perception, whether right or wrong, is that you guys do not police each other. I won't open a closed can of worms, won't say names, etc., but I SO could, and no one ever did anything except make me out to be the bad guy, Specifically, one night, I joined the serrver, it was warmup for G_rush, Allies were down 1 player so I joined allies and before the map actually started, I got moved to Axis. That was not the only time and it was always the same person. 

But that's all I'm saying out of fear of being targeted again.

this isnt  as simple as u think hip .    exp... i am playing et and teams go  3 up or down for other team .. i then have to go to scores  check whos playing best usually top 3 then i pm them ask if theyd be so kind as to move player one say no i moved 3 times already player 2 just ignores me keeps camping down team . player three gets angry i asked. 

 so i pick one move em then they go spec or leave.  people are very childish ...for the most part that play et . if i just pick one an put them to down team with out accessing the situation  they almost always cry like a b*** or just sit spec and pout.  as for policing our selves . you dont see admin chat u havent a clue what we do . there is alot of communication there trust me  we are always  watching just cuz we dont jump every sec doesnt mean we arent giving a shit. an as for db  the other day i did end up moving him . but u got mad left right away which made it worse not better.  we cant just jump  every time, we have to access the game play, map fluidity progression players on each side . time left  who the guy is  whinnying  alot just b*** if there candy bar isnt perfect.  scores  xp diff  kills deaths  an also if another admin is already  on it.........  remember when u join et its  not just about u its about respecting the game first the players sec  and admins third!!!!!!!!  dont forget the 14 trolls and the 7 guys talking in diff language, we are also dealing with .... 

Edited March 7 by captnconcrete

[Snake in the Grass]

12 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

[...] the perception [...] is that you guys do not police each other.

 

12 hours ago, RNGesus said:

We do try to police ourselves. [...]

 

Let's all remember that one admin got kicked out very recently for NOT respecting admin duties (mostly talking bad to regulars and other admins, and abusing commands).

So yes, we DO police ourselves.

[tipsy]

Here is SS from today, Calma and raider in one team, scores are bad for the opponent, but Calma won't complain. Fix teams.. blame admin. And that guy DB, hipkat, complaining of is in weak team.. that guy plays and never complains. But getting targeted for playing good. Both of you should take a break from Jay1.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Betinho]

47 minutes ago, tipsy said:

Here is SS from today, Calma and raider in one team, scores are bad for the opponent, but Calma won't complain. Fix teams.. blame admin. And that guy DB, hipkat, complaining of is in weak team.. that guy plays and never complains. But getting targeted for playing good. Both of you should take a break from Jay1.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, here's what's happening:

1) You have an admin (Sean) on the strongest team (Axis with 659 kills), but your admin has 22-23 kills, and no matter how much he tries to use !putteam sean b, it won't do much to balance the teams.

2) Undoubtedly, if I were an admin (I quit a long time ago, but I still like to help, of course), I would politely ask Raider or Electric Dog in the public chat if they would come help the allies. If neither of them responds, I would send a second public message saying, "The teams are very unbalanced," or "I have to switch one of you to the other team"... if no one responds or one of them refuses, I would switch to the one with the most kills (Electric Dog in this case). They should already feel flattered that you're asking them publicly to help the weaker team.

3) Other situations are special. Sometimes you have very good admins who are good at fulfilling their role, but sometimes their intention to use !putteam when they're playing and want to help balance teams isn't enough because they aren't skilled enough to balance teams on their own.

4) Or perhaps you do have admins like Elso who have the ability to balance teams independently because they have the skill to play, use /scores, and realize in time when to help the weaker team (there are other admins, of course, on other servers and on Jay1; I only mentioned Elso because he does a great job on Jay1).

My point is that nobody's perfect, neither as players nor as admins. Sometimes, as an admin, it's difficult to resolve a situation, since they can arise in different ways. With a little help from the wiki ( https://fearless-assassins.com/wiki/index.php/W:ET_Admin_Basics ) and a little common sense, you can resolve it as best as possible, or at least as much as is within your reach at that moment. Here, it seems the story about this player, Db, isn't quite like that, and that he played helping the weaker team. 

[Lusciousdrunk]

On 3/6/2026 at 12:51 PM, Gato said:

10 years later and nothing has changed. I learned that it seems like some of FA have favorite players and those never get moved, doesn't matter how uneven the scores are.

You are Calma, Electric Dog, Save the cats etc. correct? If you want the teams to be more even and want fairer gameplay, perhaps spend your time checking /scores and map progression before joining the defending team as a medic to talk shit to every single person who kills you with something other than an smg. Honestly pretty funny of you to come in here and make that complaint. 
 

As far as the rest of this goes, if you have a problem with a certain admin not doing their job, feel free to use contact us or send a message to staff co leaders or leaders so we can handle it internally. Actual proof and not just accusations are needed. I cannot be on the server 24/7 and cannot take proper action without proper proof. 
 

 

[-=HipKat=-]

13 hours ago, captnconcrete said:

this isnt  as simple as u think hip .    exp... i am playing et and teams go  3 up or down for other team .. i then have to go to scores  check whos playing best usually top 3 then i pm them ask if theyd be so kind as to move player one say no i moved 3 times already player 2 just ignores me keeps camping down team . player three gets angry i asked. 

 so i pick one move em then they go spec or leave.  people are very childish ...for the most part that play et . if i just pick one an put them to down team with out accessing the situation  they almost always cry like a b*** or just sit spec and pout.  as for policing our selves . you dont see admin chat u havent a clue what we do . there is alot of communication there trust me  we are always  watching just cuz we dont jump every sec doesnt mean we arent giving a shit. an as for db  the other day i did end up moving him . but u got mad left right away which made it worse not better.  we cant just jump  every time, we have to access the game play, map fluidity progression players on each side . time left  who the guy is  whinnying  alot just b*** if there candy bar isnt perfect.  scores  xp diff  kills deaths  an also if another admin is already  on it.........  remember when u join et its  not just about u its about respecting the game first the players sec  and admins third!!!!!!!!  dont forget the 14 trolls and the 7 guys talking in diff language, we are also dealing with .... 

I know it's not easy and I'm glad to see you on Jay 1 now. I called out db because he just never moves, while I try to move every time I see teamsoff, I just did twice on Warbell, and I wasn't mad when I left, I was waiting for my gf to watch tv. I always try to join the weaker team. db has never been on my team, errr, the weaker team.

12 hours ago, Snake in the Grass said:

 

 

Let's all remember that one admin got kicked out very recently for NOT respecting admin duties (mostly talking bad to regulars and other admins, and abusing commands).

So yes, we DO police ourselves.

When it is blatantly obvious.

  

10 hours ago, tipsy said:

Here is SS from today, Calma and raider in one team, scores are bad for the opponent, but Calma won't complain. Fix teams.. blame admin. And that guy DB, hipkat, complaining of is in weak team.. that guy plays and never complains. But getting targeted for playing good. Both of you should take a break from Jay1. 

 

It's not that he never complains, he never talks, ever and why would he complain?? He's one of the top players on the server. WTH would he have to complain about?

I took a break from Jay 1 until FA let Jay 2 die...

8 minutes ago, Lusciousdrunk said:

You are Calma, Electric Dog, Save the cats etc. correct?
 

 

Wait.. what!!??

 

Quote

If you want the teams to be more even and want fairer gameplay, perhaps spend your time checking /scores and map progression before joining the defending team as a medic to talk shit to every single person who kills you with something other than an smg. Honestly pretty funny of you to come in here and make that complaint. 

 

This is my whole point?? What does it do if a mediocre player like me moves, other than equal the number of players when the top players who have real influence on the teams they're rare or never move and rarely or never are asked to move?

 

Edited March 8 by -=HipKat=-

[-=HipKat=-]

..

Edited March 8 by -=HipKat=-

[-=HipKat=-]

Let's change direction.

 

One team has more players, much higher kills/scores, and 2-3 of the best players on that same team.

A mediocre player moves to the losing team after repeated calls to even teams, which makes both teams have the same number of players, but does nothing to help the losing teams with scores

 

If scores are an indicator of whether teams are even or not, does a lower-skilled player moving really satisfy fixing teams?? Or does it just satisfy an equal number of players on each team with no regard to scores?

 

[-=HipKat=-]

On 3/10/2026 at 9:13 PM, -=HipKat=- said:

Let's change direction.

 

One team has more players, much higher kills/scores, and 2-3 of the best players on that same team.

A mediocre player moves to the losing team after repeated calls to even teams, which makes both teams have the same number of players, but does nothing to help the losing teams with scores

 

If scores are an indicator of whether teams are even or not, does a lower-skilled player moving really satisfy fixing teams?? Or does it just satisfy an equal number of players on each team with no regard to scores?

 

 

So, no one has an answer?

[Armagedonyx]

On 3/11/2026 at 3:13 AM, -=HipKat=- said:

Let's change direction.

 

One team has more players, much higher kills/scores, and 2-3 of the best players on that same team.

A mediocre player moves to the losing team after repeated calls to even teams, which makes both teams have the same number of players, but does nothing to help the losing teams with scores

 

If scores are an indicator of whether teams are even or not, does a lower-skilled player moving really satisfy fixing teams?? Or does it just satisfy an equal number of players on each team with no regard to scores?

 

We try balancing teams based on quantity AND as much as possible, on quality. Though, not always simple, especially if both teams are full. Not to forget that some of the "pro" players, at least from my experience are usually toxic and highly focus on their personnal ratings. So asking them to move is either refused/ignored and will just leave or go spec if they are without their personnal approval (not saying they all are though).

 

There is also the shuffle option but it is a command that only should be used during warmup, this can sometimes mess teams even more, so then we again have to ask players to move.

 

On a side note, I've noticed how sometimes, a team can be more focused on kills and one more obj oriented. Scores were in favor of the fraggers, but the objective oriented team managed to pull it off. So it's not always a matter of scores, but pure strategy and cooperation between teammates. 

[Betinho]

On 3/10/2026 at 11:13 PM, -=HipKat=- said:

Let's change direction.

 

One team has more players, much higher kills/scores, and 2-3 of the best players on that same team.

A mediocre player moves to the losing team after repeated calls to even teams, which makes both teams have the same number of players, but does nothing to help the losing teams with scores

 

If scores are an indicator of whether teams are even or not, does a lower-skilled player moving really satisfy fixing teams?? Or does it just satisfy an equal number of players on each team with no regard to scores?

 

 

I understand what you're getting at. I'll try to help and mention a post from an admin that you haven't seen, but I remember it and it still serves as a guide for me (you don't always have to rely on exact numbers, of course):

-Besides the admin basics ( https://fearless-assassins.com/wiki/index.php/W:ET_Admin_Basics) , there is/was a post that you could consider as a difference where "you could intervene": approximately 60 or 70% in kills, deaths, and efficiency. Example: 

Example 1: Axis has 200 kills, allies have 330 kills. An admin sees the difference starting to increase, and in my opinion, should intervene (in these cases, the weaker team can easily have 2 or 3 more players, and that would be fine).

Example 2: Let's continue with Axis: 200 kills, allies have 330 kills. Axis has 15 players, Allies have 17. A player with 25-20 kills/deaths (in good faith) switches to Axis, leaving 16 and 16. What would I do? Wait a few minutes. Unfortunately, what you're thinking is likely to happen, and the Allies will continue to increase their kills, leaving Axis with 250 kills and Allies with 400 (a hypothetical). An admin should intervene again. But hey, nobody's perfect, and we shouldn't underestimate someone who wants to help. Just wait a bit and then act again to keep teams balanced.

I understand that 60/70% is a parameter, a guideline, a helpful tool. I think when you play, you should occasionally run `/scores` and see how everything is going.

[-=HipKat=-]

3 hours ago, Armagedonyx said:

We try balancing teams based on quantity AND as much as possible, on quality. Though, not always simple, especially if both teams are full. Not to forget that some of the "pro" players, at least from my experience are usually toxic and highly focus on their personnal ratings. So asking them to move is either refused/ignored and will just leave or go spec if they are without their personnal approval (not saying they all are though).

That's a sad truth. 

 

  

1 hour ago, Betinho said:

 

I understand what you're getting at. I'll try to help and mention a post from an admin that you haven't seen, but I remember it and it still serves as a guide for me (you don't always have to rely on exact numbers, of course):

-Besides the admin basics ( https://fearless-assassins.com/wiki/index.php/W:ET_Admin_Basics) , there is/was a post that you could consider as a difference where "you could intervene": approximately 60 or 70% in kills, deaths, and efficiency. Example: 

Example 1: Axis has 200 kills, allies have 330 kills. An admin sees the difference starting to increase, and in my opinion, should intervene (in these cases, the weaker team can easily have 2 or 3 more players, and that would be fine).

Example 2: Let's continue with Axis: 200 kills, allies have 330 kills. Axis has 15 players, Allies have 17. A player with 25-20 kills/deaths (in good faith) switches to Axis, leaving 16 and 16. What would I do? Wait a few minutes. Unfortunately, what you're thinking is likely to happen, and the Allies will continue to increase their kills, leaving Axis with 250 kills and Allies with 400 (a hypothetical). An admin should intervene again. But hey, nobody's perfect, and we shouldn't underestimate someone who wants to help. Just wait a bit and then act again to keep teams balanced.

I understand that 60/70% is a parameter, a guideline, a helpful tool. I think when you play, you should occasionally run `/scores` and see how everything is going.

 

My take is, if teams have even players, but scores are way off, then that's just the way that map is going and a shuffle should happen on the next map.

 

If the teams are uneven players AND the scores highly favor the team with more players, moving a mediocre player like me has the appearance of balancing teams, but really, it just balances the player count when there's a good opportunity to do both; balance the player count and help the weaker team by moving a better player.

 

This whole thing started because Lush flipped the hell out on me for not moving on Haunted Mansion the other day, when scores were WAY off - but player count was even and just like the excuse we get often, re: admins, as players, we also are trying to enjoy the game and not always watching teams as often, I was having a rare killer map  (finished 42-14 according the TB) and as a player who tries to move anytime I see I can to help fix the teams, I took it pretty personally that he came after me as he did because one time I wasn't paying attention to teams.

 

This is not an easy "just do it this way," but I get moved or asked to move or just move on my own, often, and it gets very frustrating to see top players never do the same. I TRY to play on the weaker team, since I'm frag-motivated, not objective-motivated, and it's striking to see that db, Raider, and most of the stronger players are NEVER on the same team I'm on.

Edited March 14 by -=HipKat=-