ET NQ #1 Balancing certain maps on NQ#1

[Pferd]

Hi guys,

back to one of my favourite topics: balancing in regards to choke points and my beloved riflenades and other explosives. (here we go Vice!)

On NQ#1 recent map pool, especially Oasis, i run into the problem of a complete lockdown of map progress caused by the amount/availablity of explosives, mostly the amount of rifles available.

Specifically on Oasis for the third time this week this resulted in a near impossible task to manage the teambalance. People leaving frustrated on the one hand, admins having to use the put command because noone wants to change teams and people lurking in spec trying to join the axis' side of the carnage. But even putting and stacking aimers on allies side often didnt help in mapprogress.
This uneven stacking for balances sake often result in a compelte cluster f*** for the following map aswell.

So to make a long story short, im asking if im the only admin/regular on NQ noticing it/having a problem with it. There are ways to deal with rifle numbers on certain maps based on scripts and there is the possibility to tweak the ability to vote on maps on playernumbers.

But in the end its not on me to decide but to listen to your guys opinions to see whats the he majority view on this matter.
 

[HarryAimpotter]

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I have experienced that as well many times. I play in four different FA servers (silent1, beg2, jay1, Nq1) and for some reason attacking in NQ1 is such a grind. It is most of the times very hard and on some maps its nearly impossible. Teams have to be extremely well balanced for the attacking side to gain any ground.

Oasis second stage is impossible for allies, also V2 Base, Saberpeak, MLB Hotchkiss and Tramfight.

For axis side Caen is very hard to do. Most of the times I've seen Caen played in NQ1, axis don't even get the first stage flag.

In jay1 with 20 vs 20, allies have greater success rate on MLB Hotchkiss and Tramfight than 10 vs 10 in NQ1.

What are the reasons behind this, I dont know. Maybe we should try some other version (FA version) of Oasis?

[Valk]

If I'm mistaken NQ doesn't have double jump right? I could be wrong but that probably also plays a factor, since you're unable to strafe and travel faster to objectives. 

 

Other things to look at, the usage of panzers, artillery, are these factors too enhanced and overpowered. In some cases, certain maps, no matter the server or mod, have bad choke points due to large playerbases.

[HarryAimpotter]

21 minutes ago, Valk said:

If I'm mistaken NQ doesn't have double jump right?

NQ1 has doublejump. It has similar jump mechanics to BEG2.  You can make the second jump at any time after the first jump so even while you are loosing height. Meaning you can easily jump over mines  at chokepoints etc. In jay1 for example its much harder because you can make the second jump only while you gain height.

[Vice86]

 

[daredevil]

Make a list of map.. in nice format. For ex:

 

1. Goldrush  ->  Chokepoint at truck, after putting gold in truck and team fail each time. 

Suggestion: Your suggestion which you can think fix the issue. 

 

Here are the things which we can do:

1. Change double jump height.

2. Axis/allies spawn times to give advantage to continuous loosing team.

3. More mindful on balance of teams i.e. kill / death ratio.

4. Modifying available class. i.e. if we lower down mines or MG for certain maps, we can leverage it.

5. In some maps, I can add spawn shield protection - For silent mod we tweak shield protection to avoid spawn killing unless, you trigger first bullet - then it drops. 

6. Add/remove based on total player count. 

 

We did optimizations for Jay1 for few maps.. I can see, what we can do for NQ. 

 

[amovos]

To start off, as was the original reason for posting:

1. Oasis (base map) 

     ->  Chokepoint1: First stage, reaching and capturing flag

           Suggestion: Reduce allied spawn times

     -> Chokepoint 2: Second stage, entering the city and destroying the guns > often getting to the city is already hard

          Suggestion:

              a) Reduce allied spawn times

              b) Reduce number of placeable mines (is that possible?)

              c) Reduce number of riflenades (max 2 or 3).

 

  Actually, it would be best to replace with SW_Oasis or FA_Oasis as there were usually less problems. Maybe we need to avoid the standard oasis in the NQ1 rotation.

[Pferd]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:49 PM, daredevil said:

Make a list of map.. in nice format. For ex:

 

1. Goldrush  ->  Chokepoint at truck, after putting gold in truck and team fail each time. 

Suggestion: Your suggestion which you can think fix the issue. 

 

Here are the things which we can do:

1. Change double jump height.

2. Axis/allies spawn times to give advantage to continuous loosing team.

3. More mindful on balance of teams i.e. kill / death ratio.

4. Modifying available class. i.e. if we lower down mines or MG for certain maps, we can leverage it.

5. In some maps, I can add spawn shield protection - For silent mod we tweak shield protection to avoid spawn killing unless, you trigger first bullet - then it drops. 

6. Add/remove based on total player count. 

 

We did optimizations for Jay1 for few maps.. I can see, what we can do for NQ. 

 

 

I will try to find some time the next few days and start setting up a small list!

Any input is welcome, so keep them coming

 

[Vice86]

i think we are missing the point here. 

NQ is designed to be a pain in the ass when it comes to Heavy weapons.

Noobs come here to kill the pros and vice versa.

Changing everything now won´t help to our main goal as server hosts. 

Maintaining a good playerbase and keep them attracted to the server, while creating an enjoyable envoirement for them.

If i look at NQ servers on Trackbase, we are the most popular one since a very loooong time, which kind of confirms our work here.

If we as admin whine about this and that, especially in mainchat, the players will become more likely to believe they are beeing ripped off.

Regulars usually don´t care for teams as long as the playercount is equal, and they don´t get spawnkilled for 30 minutes.

Everything else is just inbetween good old ET Fashion, as it always was, is, and will be. 

No cvar value will change that. 

However,

I support to limit the Rifle´s per team, by lets say 30% (team_maxriflegrenades 30)... but only on certain maps where i witnessed the benefits from the limitation in the past.

That was:
Adlernest and Supply Depot.

Oasis, 

maybee, we can try and see if it gets better,

but i´ve personally never witnessed players ragequitting because of the overpoweredness of our riflegrenades.

That sounds made up to me. sorry.

 

Besides, if we start with limitations,

i would highly suggest to take the medics ability to self heal away.

You know me, i play all kinds of classes, including medic, but healing yourself while fragging the shit out of the enemy is the other extreme here.

[TomekKromek]

1 hour ago, Vice86 said:

i would highly suggest to take the medics ability to self heal away.

 

 

In my dreams I see medics focused on healing engies  but I witnessed this (disabling self heal) on the two previous servers I played on. Those servers are dead now.

Edited January 26, 2023 by TomekKromek

[yaku]

To be honest - I've seen only admins complaining. Either on rambo medics or too powerful explosives/heavy weapons. Did not notice it from regular players, they sometimes ragequit of course, but I like to say: look at the screenshots made by admins applying to FA from NQ server and you will see that over the years it's very similar playerbase.

 

And that's the way NQ is and I think it's charm of that mod. It gives everyone an equal chance to help a team/kill enemy. It doesn't let you just camp and shoot people down. When server is crowded it's settings let win attacking team in situations when on other servers it would be doomed. It's love/hate mod and it has it's own enjoyers.

I personally witnessed Allies winning easily Oasis when teams were 10vs10 (even few times) and all it needed was people not afraid about their K/D stats and camp like they are defending but brave people who attacked and co-worked.

 

Overall yes, some restrictions can be provided but I would not experiment with that too much. FA's NQ is the most popular NQ server and there is a reason for that.

[HarryAimpotter]

12 hours ago, Vice86 said:

If i look at NQ servers on Trackbase, we are the most popular one since a very loooong time, which kind of confirms our work here.

 

10 hours ago, yaku said:

FA's NQ is the most popular NQ server and there is a reason for that.

If you look at Trackbase, then NQ mod has one of the smallest number of servers available overall, so there isn't much of variety to begin with. If you compare the popularity of FA NQ#1 with other FA servers, then it is on 4/5 th place (below 5 th place servers are mostly empty). So things can be improved, I'm sure. I have many years of experience in all of the top FA servers and I think that attacking in NQ#1 is the most difficult. Even though Silent1 has usually the best aimers and Jay1 has most spam. 

 

I have  never seen map progression get stuck that often in other servers, only in NQ#1. Even on maps that are great in other servers like Snatch and Venice for example. I have always  thought of Venice as well balanced map that always progresses as intended. And that has always been the case in other servers like Jay1, Beg2 and Silent1, no matter the player count. But in NQ1 I have been in allies and my team has not been able to get out of second spawn area most of the map, with even number of players ( 7 v 7 or so).

 

And there are maps that most of the time don't progress at all or don't progress beyond certain point like: Caen, Oasis,  V2 Base, Saberpeak, MLB Hotchkiss and Tramfight. 

Maps that usually work great in NQ are:  Goldrush, Italy, Supply Depot, Delivery, Baserace (:D), Adlernest, and Bremen maybe.

 

I think it is because of the number of riflenades and/or mines compared to the amount of players, mixed with bad balancing of rambo medics. Does NQ#1 has more riflenades and mines available compared to Silent1?

 

 

 

[TomekKromek]

Supply Depot->  Chokepoint with moving the truck. A large number of mines causes the immediate destruction of the truck.
Suggestion: Decrease amount of mines.

[daredevil]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:48 AM, HarryAimpotter said:

And there are maps that most of the time don't progress at all or don't progress beyond certain point like: Caen, Oasis,  V2 Base, Saberpeak, MLB Hotchkiss and Tramfight. 

Maps that usually work great in NQ are:  Goldrush, Italy, Supply Depot, Delivery, Baserace (:D), Adlernest, and Bremen maybe.

Please elaborate definition for stuck i.e. 50/50 wins/loose all the time OR One team is always winning? Thanks. 

[HarryAimpotter]

It depends of the teams but in Caen for example, very often (maybe 50% of the time) Axis will not get the city flag, so the map will end at the first stage. In Oasis for example I'd say percentage is even worse than 50 for allies. They will get the Old City flag but then will die at the tunnels, never reaching the AT guns. I dont have the statistics for it, but I dont think I have ever seen Allies win Oasis in NQ#1. Winning or not winning the map isnt exactly the problem. The problem is if some of the stages of the map never get played, because there are some chokepoints that attackers just cant get through.