nudge settings

[020-HaZe-020]

i know this is  old but i still want to say something about it...

 

The last couple  of months i have looked in jay3 and for some reason some people are putting the settings of the nudge -50 for no reason at al  exept to be unhittable for others

 

when you have realy bad connection and its unplayable 2 play okay...

 

but when you have a steady ping and connection of 40/50 there is no reason 2 do that settings...

 

i know its allowed but still in my opinion we need to make some rules for it 2 use

 

because i also see other people getting mad about it when its used against them

 

please share your comments about it and lets find a fair solution for this (small) problem

 

 

cheers

 

haze

[Shana]

This setting might be quite annoying for others but It helps a great deal to those who are using it. Of course not on values like -50 or +50. For me +-(cant remember cause it's locked at the moment)25 worked perfectly. I could hit enemy where game rendered model not as it's now with nudge 0 where I need to aim 2 head sizes to the side to hit the moving targets.
Still I have no idea why cl_timenudge is locked on some of FA servers and on other it's unlocked. Due to stability maybe?

 

Fair solution would be to either lock it at 0 or restrict to -25 +25 range. Since such low values help players and don't annoy much as +-50.

[HOTSPUR]

i know this is  old but i still want to say something about it...

 

The last couple  of months i have looked in jay3 and for some reason some people are putting the settings of the nudge -50 for no reason at al  exept to be unhittable for others

 

when you have realy bad connection and its unplayable 2 play okay...

 

but when you have a steady ping and connection of 40/50 there is no reason 2 do that settings...

 

i know its allowed but still in my opinion we need to make some rules for it 2 use

 

because i also see other people getting mad about it when its used against them

 

please share your comments about it and lets find a fair solution for this (small) problem

 

 

cheers

 

haze

 

Yeah but there are also a lot of people who config and others don't know how to so isn't that an advantage too ?-50 timenudge is used a lot and I don't see a prob with it just do as they do.  

[SunLight]

In reality cl_timenudge doesn't give you any advantage when it comes to hitting or not hitting (talking about Jaymod). If you don't agree, feel free to explain in detail what it does, with references to the source code (file and specific lines), and how it can make people 'unhittable', while you're there also explain how hit detection works and what 'unhittable' exactly means if there is even such a thing.

 

cl_timenudge doesn't affect in any way the way you move, or the way you will be hit by others, it only affects the way you see *other players* moving if *you* use the timenudge.

 

On etpro, if you change it you won't hit the enemy yourself (with no change for the enemy), and that's why it's locked to 0. On Jaymod, it doesn't make a difference. Silent mod, I forgot but it's easy to check.

 

Not only people who use timenudge have no advantage (because their motion will be as smooth or unsmooth as it is without, and their own hitboxes won't move by a millimeter), but they could even have a slight disadvantage because they need to extrapolate frames instead of interpolating, i.e. their lagometer will be all yellow and their client will predict enemy positions (and predictions can be wrong) instead of interpolating the real positions they have.

 

At most, they can see someone going out from a corner one instant earlier, but the disadvantages are greater than this small advantage, and again on etpro you shouldn't change it or you will misalign your enemy's hitbox and you won't hit well.

 

cl_timenudge is a legacy of the old times when in games like Quake or RTCW or ET there was no antilag, now (and I mean even 10 years ago) it doesn't make any sense

 

tl;dr

people who use it, don't know anything and think they have an advantage, people who complain don't know anything as well, and they think it gives an advantage, while it doesn't.

[Shana]

Seeing enemy's model in it's actual hitbox is very big help
Didn't get much into it but tested some values and it helps on nq 1.2.3. On jaymod nothing works

With it locked I guess I need to wait for better connection.

[SunLight]

Seeing enemy's model in it's actual hitbox is very big help

Didn't get much into it but tested some values and it helps on nq 1.2.3. On jaymod nothing works

With it locked I guess I need to wait for better connection.

On etpro if you change nudge, you can move your enemy's hitboxes ahead in time or back (note that I said your enemy's - not your hitboxes - there isn't any way to change your own hitboxes position, because they are calculated by the server). That way you would have to aim a bit ahead or a bit behind, but honestly even if it wasn't locked I wouldn't see an advantage. I mean, why should you aim behind or ahead when you can aim at the target.

 

On Jaymod this isn't possible. On Silent and Nq I don't know, maybe yes since etpub is closer to etpro than jaymod, but keep in mind that bullets are random, you can't really see if something has a positive effect or not unless you do very specific tests or you look at the source code and see how things work.

[DFighter]

sight ... go -50 nudge everyone can use it so if you cant win or hit them try to learn to play with it yourself nub
There are so many settings I have nudge but some are for me also unhittable should we ban there settings too then ?
 

[Aniky]

Pretty much "visual" command without any proper function, ppl with little knowledge thinking that they will have reduced ping cus of that.

[HOTSPUR]

Pretty much "visual" command without any proper function, ppl with little knowledge thinking that they will have reduced ping cus of that.

 

But timenudge does reduce ping ?

 

In reality cl_timenudge doesn't give you any advantage when it comes to hitting or not hitting (talking about Jaymod). If you don't agree, feel free to explain in detail what it does, with references to the source code (file and specific lines), and how it can make people 'unhittable', while you're there also explain how hit detection works and what 'unhittable' exactly means if there is even such a thing.

 

cl_timenudge doesn't affect in any way the way you move, or the way you will be hit by others, it only affects the way you see *other players* moving if *you* use the timenudge.

 

On etpro, if you change it you won't hit the enemy yourself (with no change for the enemy), and that's why it's locked to 0. On Jaymod, it doesn't make a difference. Silent mod, I forgot but it's easy to check.

 

Not only people who use timenudge have no advantage (because their motion will be as smooth or unsmooth as it is without, and their own hitboxes won't move by a millimeter), but they could even have a slight disadvantage because they need to extrapolate frames instead of interpolating, i.e. their lagometer will be all yellow and their client will predict enemy positions (and predictions can be wrong) instead of interpolating the real positions they have.

 

At most, they can see someone going out from a corner one instant earlier, but the disadvantages are greater than this small advantage, and again on etpro you shouldn't change it or you will misalign your enemy's hitbox and you won't hit well.

 

cl_timenudge is a legacy of the old times when in games like Quake or RTCW or ET there was no antilag, now (and I mean even 10 years ago) it doesn't make any sense

 

tl;dr

people who use it, don't know anything and think they have an advantage, people who complain don't know anything as well, and they think it gives an advantage, while it doesn't

Edited December 2, 2016 by HOTSPUR

[HOTSPUR]

I will clear up what I meant from what I read he/she said timenudge -50 gives players some sort of advantage as they are un hittable if it does then player configs also give an advantage over others it all swings in roundabouts.

[RendeL]

On etpub this does have the slight advandage, but usually any decent server limits this to 0. 

[Aniky]

But timenudge does reduce ping ?

 

No, only visual.

[Ann!b@l]

But timenudge does reduce ping ?

best way to check your approximate real ping is to check with \serverstatus.. You will see that despite reduced ping displayed on table with timenudge set negatively, your ping is still the same in reality.

 

 

 

extra note: timenudge at -50 is useless and placebo since it's clamped to +30/-30 in game engine. Use negative timenudge helps only to release snapshots sooner but gives a warpy view\effect.

 

If you set cl_timenudge to a large negative value (like -30), cg.nextSnap will almost always be NULL. That means other players' origins will almost never be interpolated. The code drops through to do extrapolation. However, since a player's trajectory type is TR_INTERPOLATE, the trajectory evaluation function (BG_EvaluateTrajectory()) will simply return the input vector.

 

The input vector will only change when there's a new snapshot. That's why other players look “jerky” when you use a large negative cl_timenudge.

[Stavros]

 However If you do wish to alter cl_timenudge to adjust client side prediction then try a negative value that is 25% to 50% of your average ping. Example if you are currently pinging 100 to the server then experiment with a setting between -25 to -50 as your cl_timenudge value.

 

example at me:

 

 

[SunLight]

However If you do wish to alter cl_timenudge to adjust client side prediction then try a negative value that is 25% to 50% of your average ping. Example if you are currently pinging 100 to the server then experiment with a setting between -25 to -50 as your cl_timenudge value.

That's not your real ping to the server, though.

 

Also as Annibal pointed out and I forgot to write, timenudge -50 doesn't exist because the minimum is -30

 

When you change timenudge to a negative number, you will see things a bit earlier, if you set it to a positive number, a bit later.

Now in theory seeing what happens in the server a bit earlier should be an advantage.

 

But the problem is this: the server goes at 20fps, the client goes (hopefully) much faster.

 

Normally (i.e. timenudge=0) you don't draw the latest server frame, but the previous one. The client draws the enemy position in between the last frame and this previous frame, and smoothly transfers between the two. This is the 'interpolation' (blue in the lagometer). When you reach the other frame, another frame will have (hopefully) arrived, so you don't have to predict anything, you are seeing what's happening in the server (minus the obvious differences). You always have 2 server frames, the current one and the next. Enemy players need to be interpolated.

 

Now let's say you want to draw server frames the moment they arrive (that is, negative timenudge -50, which is *impossible* since the minimum is -30, but let's make just an example of what would happen). A frame arrives from the server, and an enemy is moving. The client needs to draw something till the next frame arrives, but we have no next frame yet, so we can't. This is what the game calls 'extrapolation' and is yellow in the upper part of the lagometer. Players need to be interpolated so if your lagometer is all yellow you won't see them moving smoothly.

 

I think this is the reason why some people believe timenudge makes people lag, because they see everything lagging when they use it themselves, but in reality your enemy doesn't see you in a different way, since timenudge affects what you see, *not* how you move. cl_maxpackets, on the other hand (and their ratio with maxfps) decide how often you send your messages to the server, so a low value for that *can* make you move in a laggier way, and it's also really obvious to the eye. But not timenudge.

 

Since you have antilag, and you can aim at what you see, personally I would rather see things moving smoothly and the way they moved on the server (no timenudge, or maybe even positive, if there's yellow in the lagometer!), rather than seeing a wrong prediction by the client (negative timenudge). Because in ET tracking and accuracy are important, while shooting 50msec earlier rarely decides a fight (imho).

 

But the most important thing as I said, is that your enemy doesn't see any change in your movement if you set a timenudge. If there wasn't any /players command there would be no way for you to guess who is using it or not, because it's not about the movement of the player, it's about how that player sees the world (earlier or later). Therefore saying that you can make yourself unhittable by using timenudge is pure nonsense. And I think this is the only thing that counts.

 

edit:

by the way, in my demoviewer you can find in the downloads section, there is also a movement graph you can use to check who lags and who doesn't. You will see a massive change in players with say 30 maxpackets vs 100 (the first would be moving in big spikes followed by a pause, while the others more smoothly), but for timenudge you won't see a difference.

Edited December 7, 2016 by SunLight