ET Jay #1 Changes Needed to Fix Jay Server

[jason23]

Not sure how much control there is but there's a few changes that would go a long way to make the maps much more obj focus instead of just team death match.  

 

#1 Make axis spawns longer & potentially based on team size.  Goldrush, italy, oasis, etc, etc etc all end the same way.  First obj are ok but then the last obj is right next to axis spawn with allies having to travel 3x the distance.  With a spawn timer of 10 sec, it's pointless and just turns into a death match. 

I don't understand why people are so allergic to allies winning but half of the maps futile for allies with the way the map + spawn timer works.  Whats the point?

 

#2 Remove knives, shit just promotes cancer behavior of camping in hallways

 

That is all

[HarryAimpotter]

3 hours ago, jason23 said:

With a spawn timer of 10 sec, it's pointless and just turns into a death match. 

You are describing situation that happens with (almost)full server during prime time. When server is not that full it is often that allies will win. Just yesterday I had 10 v 10 match in jay1 where allies won 3 or 4 maps in a row. The real issue is that most maps are not designed for so large amount of players and its easy to hold down chokepoints with flamer,mg and few rifle-nades. The axis spawn time is not the issue. Even if 1/3 of defenders are alive they are still able to hold down chokepoins that only 2-3 attackers than fit through at any given time.

[-=HipKat=-]

9 hours ago, jason23 said:

Not sure how much control there is but there's a few changes that would go a long way to make the maps much more obj focus instead of just team death match.  

 

#1 Make axis spawns longer & potentially based on team size.  Goldrush, italy, oasis, etc, etc etc all end the same way.  First obj are ok but then the last obj is right next to axis spawn with allies having to travel 3x the distance.  With a spawn timer of 10 sec, it's pointless and just turns into a death match. 

I don't understand why people are so allergic to allies winning but half of the maps futile for allies with the way the map + spawn timer works.  Whats the point?

 

#2 Remove knives, shit just promotes cancer behavior of camping in hallways

 

That is all

You'll never get rid of knives. 

That has been debated many times over the years.

 

A better quest would be to limit R_nade's to 1 or 2 per team

[jason23]

11 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

You are describing situation that happens with (almost)full server during prime time. When server is not that full it is often that allies will win. Just yesterday I had 10 v 10 match in jay1 where allies won 3 or 4 maps in a row. The real issue is that most maps are not designed for so large amount of players and its easy to hold down chokepoints with flamer,mg and few rifle-nades. The axis spawn time is not the issue. Even if 1/3 of defenders are alive they are still able to hold down chokepoins that only 2-3 attackers than fit through at any given time.

Thats why I said it could be scaled based on the # of players that are in the server at the start of the map.  Not perfect but e.g. there's 30 players total, axis spawn is 12sec.   40 players: 15 sec...     In general there's also certain maps that are just fundamentally flawed with anything more than 12 players total (goldrush for example) where longer axis spawn times would go a long way to make it more balanced.

 

Also, your point about allies winning 4 in a row is the exception not the norm.  If I can get a list of the current map rotation or just stats on who wins maps over the course of a week, I guarantee you axis is winning >50% of the time.  Probably closer to 70%.

Edited March 31 by jason23

[jason23]

6 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

You'll never get rid of knives. 

That has been debated many times over the years.

 

A better quest would be to limit R_nade's to 1 or 2 per team

 

Rnades at least take some skill and there's counters (like flak jackets as an engy).  Knives theres no counters and it just promotes toxic play style.  What if we started a poll in the forums and let the people decide.  Try it out for awhile.

Edited March 31 by jason23

[-=HipKat=-]

8 hours ago, jason23 said:

 

Rnades at least take some skill and there's counters (like flak jackets as an engy).  Knives theres no counters and it just promotes toxic play style.  What if we started a poll in the forums and let the people decide.  Try it out for awhile.

 I promise you, this has been suggested over and over. I tried it years ago and others since.

I would beg to differ that r_nades take far less skill than knives. I would guess at least 40% of deaths I suffer on Jay 1 come from R_nades. Almost none from knives, which do have a remedy - medics who pay attention

[RASHOMON]

On 4/1/2024 at 5:58 AM, -=HipKat=- said:

 I promise you, this has been suggested over and over. I tried it years ago and others since.

I would beg to differ that r_nades take far less skill than knives. I would guess at least 40% of deaths I suffer on Jay 1 come from R_nades. Almost none from knives, which do have a remedy - medics who pay attention

I know the discussion about knives is pointless and I've already discussed it in-game but still, I'll give it a try : the main point about poison knives is not camping, is not the skill, etc. It's the fact that poison knives is a complete nonsense in regards to ET's core gameplay. The person who enabled this and prevented selfkill - thus respawning in time - doesn't understand ET's uniqueness.

 

ET is a game based on respawn times (competitively, it is absolutely crucial). But even on casual servers, there is nothing more infuriating than missing a respawn because you can't avoid the 10 seconds DOT.

 

Why can I selfkill in any type of fight so I don't miss respawn but when I'm poisoned, I can do nothing but fall from height or dive on a grenade - it still makes me miss respawns. - if I want to shorten the wait?

 

Just enable selfkills while poisoned - it will still give the kill to the opponent. It's a good middle ground that should really be enabled.

Edited April 5 by RASHOMON

[jason23]

2 hours ago, RASHOMON said:

I know the discussion about knives is pointless and I've already discussed it in-game but still, I'll give it a try : the main point about poison knives is not camping, is not the skill, etc. It's the fact that poison knives is a complete nonsense in regards to ET's core gameplay. The person who enabled this and prevented selfkill - thus respawning in time - doesn't understand ET's uniqueness.

 

ET is a game based on respawn times (competitively, it is absolutely crucial). But even on casual servers, there is nothing more infuriating than missing a respawn because you can't avoid the 10 seconds DOT.

 

Why can I selfkill in any type of fight so I don't miss respawn but when I'm poisoned, I can do nothing but fall from height or dive on a grenade - it still makes me miss respawns. - if I want to shorten the wait?

 

Just enable selfkills while poisoned - it will still give the kill to the opponent. It's a good middle ground that should really be enabled.

Or at least 1 knife allowed, not multiple.  I also like how the FA admins say post on the forum but there's no way to action anything.  They basically just pointing you to a dead end, dope stuff.  Guess I'll just complain on the server.

[MosesIsComingLookBusy]

On silent 1 we have a setting that if you do /kill after taking damage from an enemy (a window of 3-4 seconds I believe) you get scared to death by that enemy and that enemy get the kill credit. Not sure if it is possible to implement that on jaymod, but if so that would fulfill rashomon wishes atleast.
My wish is if poison knives needs to be in the game (I'm for removing them), but if it is a "must", only let covies be able to have poison knives.

[-=HipKat=-]

1 hour ago, jason23 said:

Or at least 1 knife allowed, not multiple.  I also like how the FA admins say post on the forum but there's no way to action anything.  They basically just pointing you to a dead end, dope stuff.  Guess I'll just complain on the server.

And they'll tell you to post on the forum... lol

 

Truth is, there are 3 ways to make this game better, using @RASHOMON's idea of self-kill enabled. One R_nade per team and lower slots on Jay 1 to populate other servers.

Here are the problems. 

I hated knives but now, though I use them very rarely, I like that I can empty a magazine and grab a knife quickly to throw it.

The R_nade junkies who have NO SKILL with MG will cry - even though most of them don't even know they have pliers and how they should be used.

Redirecting people to other servers will only make them quit the game until a time when they can just get on Jay 1 because less people are playing - which would be fine with me anyway.

 

I think the truth is people who run this are afraid of radical changes

Edited April 6 by -=HipKat=-

[RASHOMON]

11 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

And they'll tell you to post on the forum... lol

 

Truth is, there are 3 ways to make this game better, using @RASHOMON's idea of self-kill enabled. One R_nade per team and lower slots on Jay 1 to populate other servers.

Here are the problems. 

I hated knives but now, though I use them very rarely, I like that I can empty a magazine and grab a knife quickly to throw it.

The R_nade junkies who have NO SKILL with MG will cry - even though most of them don't even know they have pliers and how they should be used.

Redirecting people to other servers will only make them quit the game until a time when they can just get on Jay 1 because less people are playing - which would be fine with me anyway.

 

I think the truth is people who run this are afraid of radical changes

I don't think ET is at a point where there can be radical changes. People mostly play the game out of nostalgia and as a habit after work, changing anything to that habit by lowering max players, redirecting, etc. will just push

people to leave the game for good I think.

  

13 hours ago, MosesIsComingLookBusy said:

On silent 1 we have a setting that if you do /kill after taking damage from an enemy (a window of 3-4 seconds I believe) you get scared to death by that enemy and that enemy get the kill credit. Not sure if it is possible to implement that on jaymod, but if so that would fulfill rashomon wishes atleast.
My wish is if poison knives needs to be in the game (I'm for removing them), but if it is a "must", only let covies be able to have poison knives.

Oh we have that over Jay1 too, it's a very good middle ground. You don't miss respawn and opponent is rewarded with the kill. I sitll don't get why it is not implemented with poison knives, it makes no sense. I hope it is not rooted into Jaymod's base code since the code has never been released and creator Jay isn't reachable anymore iirc... Hope I'm not writing any bs.

 

 

 

Edited April 6 by RASHOMON

[captnconcrete]

u guys are beating a dead horse.  if u would like change.. here... u will in fact need to get together as a group and approach the subject tactfully.  its very hard to get ur point across. in a single point discussion that goes no where.i myself have tried what u fellas are doing . here in this discussion . an failed miserably when it got too the higher ups who actually decide. how it gets done. 1 ....2... 10 ...15.. players saying same thing wont get there attention. but if say u group up. an have legit concern. an wants . maybe they will hear u then. most of us here  on fa servers are here for the sake of keeping et alive. nostalgia  un winding after work. but its really hard to get ur point a crossed when it falls on deaf ears.

Edited April 6 by captnconcrete

[HarryAimpotter]

21 hours ago, RASHOMON said:

It's the fact that poison knives is a complete nonsense in regards to ET's core gameplay. The person who enabled this and prevented selfkill - thus respawning in time - doesn't understand ET's uniqueness.

I am not big fan on poison knives myself and I don't use them very often, BUT I think that adding them to the mod (without the possibility to SK) broadens the game meta and  enables players with different playstyles to have success. Most players approach the game in "kill or be killed" point of view, but maybe in some situations its NOT the best solution to kill your enemy, but make him miss the next spawn. That's completely new way to look at the game and it opens the game up to different and alternative tactics and at the same time it does not render "kill or be killed" meta useless either. They both can work, If players are skillful enough.

21 hours ago, RASHOMON said:

Why can I selfkill in any type of fight

I think it's only fair that you cannot selfkill while poisoned and that is because with no other weapon you are in a such disadvantage. You are literally brining a knife to a gunfight, lol.

That play is very risky and with that risk, there should be also huge possible reward. You only have one shot, if you miss, you are dead, and even if you don't miss, you can still sometimes be killed. 

 

I think that the overall objective for balancing the game should be that all weapons can be useful and effective if used with correct tactics and game style.

Edited April 6 by HarryAimpotter

[Lusciousdrunk]

So knives and rnades taken away but no problem with an infinite amount of medics on each side who can self heal with a fast recharge rate. Sounds like you want the advantage for you and people who play like you only. It’s Jay1, it’s not a scrim server. We have Silent1 and Legacy server that have settings that you’re looking for. Why not play there instead of wanting to change the settings of a server that a lot of people play at just to benefit a small few? 

[tipsy]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7 by tipsy