ajnl Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 So take anything that makes us who we are, and discard it.....no thank you. Having countries, religions, different ideas, etc is not the problem. The problem is people who do extreme evil in the name of something/anything that they can think of, then taking that to the extreme. Quote
Ol Smoke Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 None of that matters. Sorry. As long as there is money, greed and a thirst for power, humans will be the sinful creatures we have become. In 1967, I got to visit a hippie commune near Taos, New Mexico for two days with some friends. It wasn't the idyllic dream I had heard of in songs and movies. It was filthy, and everyone just laid around smoking dope and when they did do something, it was going to town and stealing everything they needed. "The man owes us this much for making the world a place for war and killing" That was what I heard more than once while there. These "love children" were only street people bums, with peace symbols as their cross. All anyone can do today, is control yourself, and that little bit of space around you, and hope it rubs off on someone else. In this world...war is a good thing. If we didn't have world wars, and nation wars, we would have 10 times the people on this planet. War stops us from having to kill people through euthanasia. Disease and sickness does the other part. Quote
SiD Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 So take anything that makes us who we are, and discard it.....no thank you. Having countries, religions, different ideas, etc is not the problem. The problem is people who do extreme evil in the name of something/anything that they can think of, then taking that to the extreme. Actually it is the problem. Segregation and grouping is the biggest problem. You see it with sports fans. You see it with countries. Religion. Race. Even the lowest, primal example: High school cliques. (Y`know jocks vs nerds?) It's not 'evil'. It's just that humans are f***ing stupid when they forms groups based on specific ideologies. Every major war has always been one group that hates another for no reason other than they are different. Or they want land that another group has claimed stake over. Groups of humans f*** everything up and it's not because they are always evil. It's because they're stupid. This is one single planet. Why the f*** do I need a passport to travel anywhere I'd like? Why do I have to show pride for my country, when it's just another hunk of land on a planet that we need to share? Why can't people believe in a deity on their own rather than form groups that shun those who share different ideologies? Everything that 'makes us who we are' is built on stupidity. @Smoke Or we could just limit people's abilities to have large f***ing families. Sounds like a more humane way to dealing with the problem then f***ing promoting killing. 2 Quote
ajnl Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Actually it is the problem. Segregation and grouping is the biggest problem. You see it with sports fans. You see it with countries. Religion. Race. Even the lowest, primal example: High school cliques. (Y`know jocks vs nerds?) It's not 'evil'. It's just that humans are f***ing stupid when they forms groups based on specific ideologies. Every major war has always been one group that hates another for no reason other than they are different. Or they want land that another group has claimed stake over. Groups of humans f*** everything up and it's not because they are always evil. It's because they're stupid. This is one single planet. Why the f*** do I need a passport to travel anywhere I'd like? Why do I have to show pride for my country, when it's just another hunk of land on a planet that we need to share? Why can't people believe in a deity on their own rather than form groups that shun those who share different ideologies? Everything that 'makes us who we are' is built on stupidity. @Smoke Or we could just limit people's abilities to have large f***ing families. Sounds like a more humane way to dealing with the problem then f***ing promoting killing. You cannot prove that, "Everything that 'makes us who we are' is built on stupidity". Bullying at schools is usually a small group who pressure others into joining them, when you pull the "trouble" kids out those problems will go away. These trouble kids usually have problems at home, such as divorce and/or things. Which isn't an excuse, but does give a reason for their behavior. Thing is that just because they are part of a certain group, jock or nerd (or w/e) doesn't cause them to behave in a certain way. When it comes to radical Islamist, it has less to do with Islam, and most to do with the radical/extremist group. This should be pretty obvious, looking at the news in France this past week. So if I understand what you're saying is, we shouldn't have different countries, soccer teams, or anything else that would make us different...yeah that sounds like an AMAZING place to live. You want less government control, so we do away with passports, but then you want more government control and force people to have a certain family size? =================================================== Actually the fact that we can have a discussion about this shows that different people can communicate with each other without letting our differences get in the way. Edited January 10, 2015 by ajnl Quote
Ol Smoke Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Hey Cid, where the f...ck do you get off saying that I am promoting killing in that statement I made? Back it up or shut it up Quote
FireWienie Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 I saw this and it warmed my heart. As a muslim, I just hope these stereotypes in general, wars, money, etc. can stop and we can live in harmony. 1 Quote
SiD Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Hey Cid, where the f...ck do you get off saying that I am promoting killing in that statement I made? Back it up or shut it up Y'know that tail end of your post? In this world...war is a good thing. If we didn't have world wars, and nation wars, we would have 10 times the people on this planet. War stops us from having to kill people through euthanasia. Disease and sickness does the other part. In this world...war is a good thing. If we didn't have world wars, and nation wars, we would have 10 times the people on this planet. War stops us from having to kill people through euthanasia. In this world...war is a good thing. If we didn't have world wars, and nation wars, we would have 10 times the people on this planet. In this world...war is a good thing. Sounds like you're promoting killing to me. I don't know of too many wars where killing doesn't happen. You seem to be promoting war because, and I quote: "If we didn't have world wars, and nation wars, we would have 10 times the people on this planet." i.e. Population control. 1+1 =? I just offered a more humane solution to a very big problem. Anything else? You cannot prove that, "Everything that 'makes us who we are' is built on stupidity". Show me how claiming a piece of land by jamming a flag into it is any way intelligent? How believing unquestionly in a diety that hasn't shown itself in thousands of years, or following a man made book for moral guidance- (y'know the kind that says you should hate 'fags' because 'God said so') is intelligent? How being proud of your birthplace while looking down upon others is intelligent? These are the things that helped shaped who we are as a human race. You could make arguments for technological advance, things like setting foot on the moon or mapping stars- which is a great +1 in the "humans are smart" category. But it pales in comparison to all the dumb shit we've done in the name of whatever god/country/organization. Bullying at schools is usually a small group who pressure others into joining them, when you pull the "trouble" kids out those problems will go away. These trouble kids usually have problems at home, such as divorce and/or things. Which isn't an excuse, but does give a reason for their behavior. Thing is that just because they are part of a certain group, jock or nerd (or w/e) doesn't cause them to behave in a certain way. The first of your statement proves the point I was making. In groups, humans become stupid. Many seem to devolve into primal mob mentality. On their own many are fine. Put them in a group where they need to fit in and many people tend to change. For the worse, because differences divide quite easily. And it's not always because one kid is trouble. Many times it's just a need to fit in or feel accepted as part of a group. Monkey see, monkey do. Why do you think so many people look for reasons to connect? They want to belong to groups of like-minded people, because they feel alienated around those that do not share their own interests. Outsiders are often shunned or ridiculed to help the group come to a point of solidarity on whatever they believe in. A small example of something like this would be to pick any random music video on youtube. People that enjoy the music will talk, chat, and gush about how much they enjoy the artist or song. Then comes along someone (an outsider) who found the video either by accident or on purpose, and don't specifically enjoy the song. They post something negative (mild or not) and you will see the mob mentality settle in with group down voting, attacking the credibility of the outsider, and generally being nasty. Which of course devolves further into a flame war that is kind of amusing to read. When it comes to radical Islamist, it has less to do with Islam, and most to do with the radical/extremist group. This should be pretty obvious, looking at the news in France this past week. Islam is only the most recent of events. Let's go back much farther: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war Wars have been fought in the name of Religion for thousands of years. People may say that these extremists don't represent an entire religion, and that's fine. Agreeable. But it doesn't change the fact that their war is still a religious war in nature. One that is very selfish and barbaric. Which goes back to my original point that groups of humans are stupid. So if I understand what you're saying is, we shouldn't have different countries, soccer teams, or anything else that would make us different...yeah that sounds like an AMAZING place to live. I never once said that. I merely countered your argument that things like religion, countries etc are in fact a problem. And that was because humans in groups tend to become stupid. It's simply the human nature, and not necessarily because of 'evil'. You want less government control, so we do away with passports, but then you want more government control and force people to have a certain family size? These were merely examples for two very different problems. Neither that will actually be solved, I'm sure. =================================================== Actually the fact that we can have a discussion about this shows that different people can communicate with each other without letting our differences get in the way. That is because this discussion is mild. Try opening up a can of worms about how one political party is better than another, or how one country is right and one is wrong (i.e palestine vs Isreal), or that your answer to the 'great question' is the right answer. See how long that discussion actually lasts with any sort of civility. Two people could probably converse about it for a while. But as that conversational group grows, you can be sure that the stupidity will show itself. Quote
speedfact Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 guys settle down just a little....its justs a comic. Not like someone burned down the play boy mansion. 4 Quote
VanDuyvesteijn Posted January 11, 2015 Author Posted January 11, 2015 Oh guys sorry for causing such loaded discussions... I think it was just nice to share a little inspiration from John Lennon that we could think of After all, you can't choose where you are born! Quote
ajnl Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Show me how claiming a piece of land by jamming a flag into it is any way intelligent? Because it started out with groups of people banding together for safety, which turned into countries. I don't see how that is stupid or illogical. Theology of religions (at least for Christianity) is based on philosophy, which is anything but stupid. If you want to discuss Christianity, we can do that through pm. You can be proud of your birth place, without looking down on others. All that proves is that there are evil people who look down on others for any reason, whether or not it is about countries. None of what you said proves that having a religion or country is a problem, it just proves that there are evil people. The first of your statement proves the point I was making. In groups, humans become stupid. False, if you take the one trouble person out, the group is fine. It has to do with peer pressure, and my point is that it goes deeper than just groups jocks/nerds. Idk what schools you've gone to, but the ones I've gone to show the complete opposite of what you're saying. People want to connect because we are social beings. A small example of something like this would be to pick any random music video on youtube. People that enjoy the music will talk, chat, and gush about how much they enjoy the artist or song. Then comes along someone (an outsider) who found the video either by accident or on purpose, and don't specifically enjoy the song. They post something negative (mild or not) and you will see the mob mentality settle in with group down voting, attacking the credibility of the outsider, and generally being nasty. Which of course devolves further into a flame war that is kind of amusing to read. I watched a video of a guy on youtube (i can't find it now), but he showed that the amount of people who comment is actually relatively small. So the minority of people actually comment, and even less are like the ones you describe. I think it seems like a lot, but I've never actually met anyone who is like a troll. Again, I can't find my source for this right now. Islam is only the most recent of events. Let's go back much farther: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war Wars have been fought in the name of Religion for thousands of years. People may say that these extremists don't represent an entire religion, and that's fine. Agreeable. But it doesn't change the fact that their war is still a religious war in nature. One that is very selfish and barbaric. Which goes back to my original point that groups of humans are stupid. You know it is occurring to me that you keep using stupid, and I'm pretty sure you mean evil. Just saying. Also, have you read through the whole wiki article? William T. Cavanaugh in his Myth of Religious Violence (2009) argues that what is termed "religious wars" is a largely "Western dichotomy", arguing that all wars that are classed as "religious" have secular (economic or political) ramifications.[4] Similar opinions were expressed as early as the 1760s, during the Seven Years' War, widely recognized to be "religious" in motivation, noting that the warring factions were not necessarily split along confessional lines as much as along secular interests.[5]/ There are arguments against those truly being religious wars. I've read more books about the Christian crusades, I'll see if I can dig up the names again. I never once said that. I merely countered your argument that things like religion, countries etc are in fact a problem. And that was because humans in groups tend to become stupid. It's simply the human nature, and not necessarily because of 'evil'. Maybe being evil is part of human nature. Also, you're the one that mentioned sports fans. So if groups of sports fans is also a problem, we should get rid of sports too. These were merely examples for two very different problems. Neither that will actually be solved, I'm sure. The passport thing will get better I think. Already in the EU it is much easier. Try opening up a can of worms about how one political party is better than another, or how one country is right and one is wrong (i.e palestine vs Isreal), or that your answer to the 'great question' is the right answer. See how long that discussion actually lasts with any sort of civility. Two people could probably converse about it for a while. But as that conversational group grows, you can be sure that the stupidity will show itself. You're wrong, there are many groups who have discussions without it getting out of control. I'll gladly discuss any topic with you, as long as I have enough information. No politics though, I dislike politics. guys settle down just a little....its justs a comic. Not like someone burned down the play boy mansion. I'm calm, nothing wrong in discussion something, even if it is a comic. =============================================== Oh also in the same wiki article you posted: It is evident that religion as one aspect of a people's cultural heritage may serve as a cultural marker or ideological rationalisation for a conflict that has deeper ethnic and cultural differences. This has been speficially argued for the case of The Troubles in Northern Ireland, often portrayed as a religious conflict of a Catholic vs. a Protestant faction, while the more fundamental cause of the conflict was in fact ethnic or nationalistic rather than religious in nature.[6] Since the native Irish were mostly Catholic and the later British-sponsored immigrants were mainly Protestant, the terms become shorthand for the two cultures, but it is inaccurate to describe the conflict as a religious one.[6] The Encyclopedia of War, edited by Gordon Martel, using the criteria that the armed conflict must involve some overt religious action, concludes that 6% of the wars listed in their encyclopedia can be labelled religious wars.[7] Edited January 11, 2015 by ajnl Quote
LeftWingVixen Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 We couldn't have a nice post where everyone is nice, eh? 1 Quote
ajnl Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 We couldn't have a nice post where everyone is nice, eh? Having a discussion is not allowed anymore? Quote
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