Krayzie Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I second what Parrot said. Once you finally succeed from the Union, guess what Obama will be out of office. What do they really think they are gonna get from this? They break off and it would be complete chaos for the states that leave. What money you gonna use for one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajnl Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Also.. Death.. wtf are you smoking?... Was gonna ask you the samething, lol. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmtHipple Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) OK time to chime in. While I am very much against secession from the union you can not sit here and tell me that everything is as it should be in our country. The Patriot act needs repealed today, No single piece of legislation has done more to undermine the essential liberties we all enjoyed more than this law. The Affordable care act is a misnomer it is neither affordable or able to provide the same levels of care currently available(I.E. VA hospitals vs. private sector). The Federal government needs to be better regulated by the states, remember our government is set up as a bottom up republic not a top down elected oligarchy. The NDAA is a huge slap to the face of all liberty loving Americans, but to get it passed they lumped the DOD budget into it so no signature no military funding. With the TSA running wild in our airports and looking to expand to train stations and roadway check points in the near future reminds me of other times in history that the general public has tolerated these oppressions in the name of peace and security. AS Benjamin Franklin said " Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I do not believe that there is a single master plan for the usurpation of power from the people to a single person, however if policy makers are not kept in check by "WE the People" one day we may wake up to find we are no longer the land of the free and the home of the brave, but the land of the dependent and the home of the afraid. In closing I would like to say that while it may not be the most appropriate course of action for the states to secede from the union seeing as the union was entered into at the will of the people, the will of the people should be allowed to leave the union if it can no longer be trusted to have the peoples best interest at the heart of everything it does. You do not have to agree with everything I say, but understand that a lot of people died so you would have that right and a lot more will die in the future to defend your rights. Edited November 13, 2012 by EmtHipple 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiirby Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 What money you gonna use for one? This is what I'm wondering to... Texas says they would have enough money to support being their own country, but I don't think they fully understand who's money it really is. All the money would come straight back to the U.S government. Ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmtHipple Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Why not secure your financial system with gold like it should be and then you could print your own script and call it let say" Alamos ". Other countries use each others currency any way so that's really only a matter of inflation. Edited November 13, 2012 by EmtHipple 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBacon Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Bacon.... Why should the sitting president of the United States agree to be extorted? What kind of precedence would that start? It's not extortion in my opinion. Show the birth certificate, quash the whole movement, and 5 mil. gets donated to a charity of his choice. Who the hell wouldn't? It just smells like bullshit to me. All those signatures mean nothing anyways. Civil war would be way too interdasting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=Death Hunter= Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Great topic. And f*** the federal reserve!!! The whole point of this I believe is to let our government know we are watching them and we still have rules. And how close we are from burning it down and starting again. These aren't all online petitions. But a petition is a petition any way you look at it. You only need 25,000 for presidential review. He will actually have to tell them "No" himself. And when he has over 20 states trying and say even 6-7 suceed with signatures... thats still 6-7 states he's going to have to tell no to. Maybe he will start getting the hint faster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajaah thunder Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 hmm ...i am not an american and i dont know the whole story . YET , i am giving a global opinion . USA = united states of america , the name itself means a lot to many millions of people outside the US . Speak of technological advancements , usa comes first to many of the peoples minds . Speak of prosperity , power , prestige etc etc , us comes first to many peoples minds . The people may differ in their opinion , tatz a natural thing in democracy but in my humble opinion , secession would make things worse . Take any country 's history -- a country cannot be formed overnight . It would take lots of planning economically , politically , militarily etc etc . No country is now economically independent thanx to foreign exchange . If a state leaves a country , it is going to affect all those . You have to toil from the very beginning and especially in such an economic distress situation , this whole idea is going to cause lots of problems . Edit : I dont know , but there must be a possible way to make changes to the economy rather to secede . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-the-confederacy-of-takers/2012/11/13/d8adc7ee-2dd4-11e2-beb2-4b4cf5087636_story.html Ya huh. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmtHipple Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) Did you ever stop to consider that if the federal government was not as invasive in placing B.S. regulations on state government to fund flawed social programs and the tax money of the residents all stayed in the respective states then they would not need any federal aid. Welfare and social assistance historically and rightfully thought out the whole course of human history with a couple notable exceptions have belonged to the organized churches and religious structures. Now lets look at another republic that began handing out welfare to citizens and non citizens alike as well as fighting no win wars and trying to fix the world, yes i'm talking about Rome. The only true way to restore prosperity to our country is to remove the restrictions on industry and trade and allow those people to do what they do so well, make money and lots of jobs.Let me ask you have ever received a livable reoccurring paycheck from a poor man, I have not.. Please, please understand I do not want to see any state secede from the union, but it is high time for the federal government to step back and allow the individual states to run the show that's how our government was set up and that's how it should be run. A considerable amount of the problems facing our country today are a product of failed policy from the 50's, 60's and 70's with the federal government getting involved with local level education and small town government, which by the way was more than capable of running things them self until they got involved, The home ruled small town systems even had made there way into more urban areas on a local level with positive results, these systems helped to create and educate the "Greatest generation" and fueled the creative spark behind nearly all modern technology all we have done is improve on existing designs. We need to demand a return to a classical education steep in history and democratic society. Our children our going to be the ones to fix this mess in the long run, not us and we fail as parents and society as a whole if we do not prepare them with the tools and knowledge they will need to succeed in that endeavor. Edited November 14, 2012 by EmtHipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Before the 50's, 60's and 70's we also had Jim Crow, unequal pay for women and rampant pollution. I for one am most appreciative of the progress we've made... Yes you have some good points on teaching more civic responsibility. I think some kind of national service requirement would be a very good idea. Local control of education sounds good, but in places like Texas we'd end up with uneducated hillbillies who think humans walked around with dinosaurs, and that condoms are useless. We need a certain level of asswhoopin from the feds to keep those people in check. Hell, if "good hair" Perry had his way we'd have no medicaid or food stamps, and me and my children would be homeless, and I'd be slaving away at minimum wage(oops, no minimum wage either, so I'd probably be making 1 or 2 dollars per hour) instead of attending college. Let's be very careful what we wish for hmm? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmtHipple Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Well see I disagree with you. I come from poor stock and I decided that my children were not going to have to work like I did as a child to help out unless they wanted to not because they had too. So I worked my a** of with three jobs to be able to earn the capital to start my own business and it worked it took about ten years of hard work but it happened and then the economy tanked and I lost nearly everything and just pulled my self up showed no emotional weakness to my family and started over aging reinventing myself along the why and discovering who I really was as well. All of this happened without one cent of federal assistance. So I don't believe you can not do everything for your self it just takes years of hard work and dedication. And so we are clear I'm not attacking you we don't really know one another NRL so I wont sit here on the other side of the country and tell you you are wrong , I'm just putting out what works around here. And in reference to the progress we have made I'm not sure what you are referring too. Yes It's important that every legal citizen have a representative voice in the system we have become a dependent country all looking to the fed instead of looking out for one another. In terms of pollution they have gotten out of hand with laws saying I cannot heat my home with wood( carbon neutral fuel) because it is offensive to other people because of the smoke, when studies have show that the particulate matter from pure cord wood smoke is dramatically safer for the environment then the particulates of petroleum distillates which is also not a economically stable solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 The police keep your home safe. The feds build you nice roads to travel to work on. The army keeps our country safe from external threats. I could go on. We all benefit from the government, even without "direct" assistance. I admire the fact you built your own business. Most people don't have the balls or the ability. Consider this; if you truly want no federal meddling, try living somewhere like Somalia, which has no government. I don't think anyone wants that. We can discuss where the limits should be(for example I firmly believe every able person should work/attend school(with time limits)) but I don't think we should abolish all aid. As economics tells, us, investments in human capital are one of the prime methods of growing the economy in a sustainable fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmtHipple Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) I miss spoke, yes the armed forces of this great country have keep me safe and the tax dollars I pay to my state and local municipality pay for the roads( most are stone or dirt) and as for federal assistance to the township is almost non existent as I keep close tabs on spending in the township. So spending gets to me but I would be willing to travel on tolls roads run by the states if I wished to do interstate travel on good high speed roads. We have no services other than road crew(1 FT,1PT employee), Fire Dept is 100% volly, and we have no police dept and closest one has a 45 min. response to so no they in fact do not protect our homes we are expected to defend our self's and handle small matters without involving the PD(1 car two officers) they have more important things to do( like provide need service to the other three county they cover). Thanks to a law change here I no longer must run away I'm now legally able to stand my ground and employ lethal force if I feel a threat life to my family or property. To restate my whole opinion here is for dramatically reduced federal government and and increase in state and local were We the people actually have a voice and ability to hold office and do our civic duty. So some form for national government is need to provide for securing our borders and providing external security as the founders of the country have expressed in the Constitution. About your comment of a National service requirement, I disagree for natural citizens as this would for all intents and purposes mean that people would be born into a form of government run slavery, where as a immigrant would have to serve to be granted full citizenship because they would had made the conscious choice to enter into the agreement. About the federal meddling as you put it, I would have much less of a problem with them if they did not try and interpose themselves into our daily lives,We can do just fine with out them, I can provide food, water, shelter and personal defense without any assistance outside of my very tight knit local "family". Simply put we know how to survive out here in the woods. Edited November 14, 2012 by EmtHipple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 *hears Hank Williams Jr. in his head* I feel ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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