ET Jay #1 Changes Needed to Fix Jay Server

[-=HipKat=-]

6 hours ago, hyness said:

To summarize the poison knife complaints, poison knives are bad because I don’t use them and have an unfair advantage, while panzer, nades, flame, rnades, etc are just fine because I use those heavy weapons which offer no advantage ?

This knife debate has arisen numerous times over the years. I may have been the most outspoken against them at the time. But I figured out that using them is better than complaining about them. I think the better solution is just to limit knives to 2 on spawn instead of 4. However, based on what I quoted, I would be significantly more in favor of limiting r_nades and arty, and leaving knives as they are, if anything were to change. Knives DO take skill, standing in one spot launching rifle 'nades by 5 people, no matter how populated the server is, or someone just constantly dropping arty over and over, or even worse, spamming gas that blocks you from seeing anything

[HarryAimpotter]

21 hours ago, boki said:

And let us not talk about knifes as if there is something special about it - requires skill like any other weapon in the game, nothing special about it. In contrary, it requires even less skill than most other weapons, since you only need 1 hit to win the duel.

Ofc you need skill and experience to use any weapon effectively in the game. With poison knives its not simply "point and click". Firist of all there is slight offset, meaning the knife doesnt hit exactly where your crosshair is. The other thing is that on longer distances there is also "bullet drop". So I would argue that hitting someone with a knife is a bit more difficult than with smg (point and click).

 

20 hours ago, Snake in the Grass said:

it is is OP (the poison part)

Removing the poison effect would make the knife almost completly useless. And what do you mean by OP? When was the last time someone had huge effect on the overall outcome of the map by using poison knives? A rambo medic with smg or good panzer can absolutley destroy the other team. So poison knife can seem OP for that one player getting hit, but on larger scale, it is probably even less useful/powerful as other weapons.

Edited August 7, 2025 by HarryAimpotter

[boki]

 Why then keeping something in the game what has low impact but produces high frustration? Why calling it META when it has low impact?

The usage of knifes is increasing and the frustration levels will grow.

Yesterday a knife user with M97 was absolutely destroying me and I had very little chance to do anything against him. Again, why people constantly are forgetting the complete picture? We can't look at one weapon as something that exists on its own.

[Snake in the Grass]

17 hours ago, Caipirinha said:

 

No disrespect here but double jump isn't a real life thing either, and it's there on Jay1. 

 

Jay1 always been known as a server designed to be fun, with a variety of weapons and  possibilities. 

 

In my opinion it's a server that suits many different tastes, ages, etc.

 

That's why we have quite a few different servers with different settings. There will always be things we love and hate about the game, maps, servers. Can't please everyone all the time. 

 

Improve is something but want to change how the server was designed and offered to be a place just to enjoy and have fun to become a server full of restrictions, isn't the right way in my honest opinion. 

 

 

 

 

I am only adding my two cents to the ongoing discussion about knifes, i noticed some people in favor, some people against. I don't think we were talking about restrictions, it's just the original game didn't have it, some old timers like me discover the game in 2003 when throwing poison knives didn't exist.

It's just an open thread where we exchange on our feeling about the various options, i guess my feelings is about as valid as any other people here ?

 

[PeruET]

Personally, I don't think the number of rifle grenades affects the game too much.

There aren't many Rambo Engineers on the server.

Remember that this feature of Jaymod is what differentiates it from, for example, Silent.

 

What I can suggest, for example, is something that would greatly help the game: limiting the number of mines that can enter an area. Sometimes they put 15 mines in an area that's too small, and when you deactivate them all in one action, it can cause SV lag (it always happens).

 

And I agree with my colleague @boki : I think the M97's effectiveness needs to be slightly reduced. If possible, add a charge bar (perhaps a certain number of shots every 10 seconds) Since it's too effective on short-range maps. Although it's also worth considering that it's useless at long range.

[PeruET]

7 hours ago, boki said:

 ¿Por qué entonces mantener en el juego algo que tiene poco impacto pero genera tanta frustración? ¿Por qué llamarlo META si tiene poco impacto?

El uso de cuchillos está aumentando y los niveles de frustración seguirán creciendo.

Ayer, un usuario de cuchillo con una M97 me estaba destrozando por completo y tuve muy pocas posibilidades de hacerle algo. De nuevo, ¿por qué la gente olvida constantemente la situación completa? No podemos considerar un arma como algo independiente.

Or the other solution I think would be more effective is that the user who owns the M97 shouldn't be allowed to own a knife.

Combining those two weapons, not even the best player on the server could stop him at close range.

[Dhmo]

13 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

This knife debate has arisen numerous times over the years. I may have been the most outspoken against them at the time. But I figured out that using them is better than complaining about them. I think the better solution is just to limit knives to 2 on spawn instead of 4. However, based on what I quoted, I would be significantly more in favor of limiting r_nades and arty, and leaving knives as they are, if anything were to change. Knives DO take skill, standing in one spot launching rifle 'nades by 5 people, no matter how populated the server is, or someone just constantly dropping arty over and over, or even worse, spamming gas that blocks you from seeing anything

I think I will play more and more rnade in the future to contradict your point.

[Dhmo]

12 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

Removing the poison effect would make the knife almost completly useless. 

False, I start many of my stabbing, on jay1 or silent 1 with a throwing knife, to reduce the amount of health and get an easier kill. I don't need the poison to finish a corner enemy.

[HarryAimpotter]

On 8/7/2025 at 10:37 AM, boki said:

The usage of knifes is increasing and the frustration levels will grow.

I'm sorry, I still don't understand your point. Yes, we both agreed that poison knives are (sometimes) frustrating. There are so many other  annoying ways to die. Like m97/flamer in corridor, panzer in spawn or camping on roof, mortar/arty/mines at chokepoints, etc...

Why do you only want to change poison knives? If you find poison knives particularly annoying then simply get better ? Move faster, kill faster, dodge better, etc ? 

On 8/7/2025 at 5:40 PM, Snake in the Grass said:

it's just the original game didn't have it,

Original game didn't have gas, double jump, pack drop, XP save, etc. No point of comparing jay1 to the original game. And besides there are plenty of other servers/mods where you can play as close to "the original" as you want.

  

On 8/7/2025 at 7:15 PM, Dhmo said:

False, I start many of my stabbing, on jay1 or silent 1 with a throwing knife, to reduce the amount of health and get an easier kill. I don't need the poison to finish a corner enemy.

Sure, it can be done  But that is not the issue in jay1 that @boki is talking about. It is very difficult to kill above average player in double-jump server like that. When they get hit by the (first) knife, they will either:

a) turn to your direction and kill you with 3-5 shots

b) double-jump away from the range of your knife and then kill you with 3-5 shots

If there is no poison effect, it is very easy to aim and kill a player, who can't shoot back

It might work better in silent1, because of no double-jump, but good luck with that tactic in jay1.  Very hard to pull-off. I personally can't remember the last time when someone first used a poison knife and then stabbed me to death.

  

On 8/7/2025 at 5:52 PM, PeruET said:

I think the M97's effectiveness needs to be slightly reduced. If possible, add a charge bar (perhaps a certain number of shots every 10 seconds) Since it's too effective on short-range maps. Although it's also worth considering that it's useless at long range.

I agree that m97 at close range can be extremely effective, but I don't see that too big of a problem, because like you said, its almost completely useless a long range. If you nerf the m97, then nobody will want to use that weapon. How many good/effective m97 players do you know in jay1? Besides you @PeruET, @kapman, @wuanachile there used to be this guy @ramsay_sausage and maybe few others? It is underused not exploited. It's no like behind every corner death by one shotgun-blast waits you.

Edited August 9, 2025 by HarryAimpotter

[-=HipKat=-]

5 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

I'm sorry, I still don't understand your point. Yes, we both agreed that poison knives are (sometimes) frustrating. There are so many other  annoying ways to die. Like m97/flamer in corridor, panzer in spawn or camping on roof, mortar/arty/mines at chokepoints, etc...

You can get headshots on the M97 user. You can back away while shooting the flamer, I do it all the time. Same with those other things. You can move out of spawn, jump over mines - or at least spot them. One knife hit and it's done. Especially when it's someone camping in a choke point. Hell, I camp on some maps and drop fresh med packs where I'm at so the first few hits are immediately healed, giving me time to doge out of the way or fire back. Can;t do that with one knife hit.

 

5 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

Why do you only want to change poison knives? If you find poison knives particularly annoying then simply get better ? Move faster, kill faster, dodge better, etc ? 

Original game didn't have gas, double jump, pack drop, XP save, etc. No point of comparing jay1 to the original game. And besides there are plenty of other servers/mods where you can play as close to "the original" as you want.

There is no move faster. There is no dodge when it's a back hit by a camper, cough, cough - 13, but I'm not the one who's complaining about knives. I totally appreciate the skill it takes to aim a long distance and get a hit, consistently. Elk and 13 are the best I've ever seen do that.

My ONLY dig on them is the ridiculousness of seeing players running out of spawn and all over the map only holding a knife.

 

I'd rather see gas be taken away since it rarely gets kills and always blocks your own team from seeing approaching enemies and gets spammed by someplayers

 

5 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

 there used to be this guy @ramsay_sausage and maybe few others? It is underused not exploited. It's no like behind every corner death by one shotgun-blast waits you.

 

Wonder what ever happened to that guy.

[Snake in the Grass]

5 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

Original game didn't have gas, double jump, pack drop, XP save, etc. No point of comparing jay1 to the original game. And besides there are plenty of other servers/mods where you can play as close to "the original" as you want.

There is a point, i am a human being and a creature of habit. I like double jump so i get used to it. I also think poison knife stinks big time, and i don't think i want to change my idea on the topic. The server with the perfect settings is the one that i would possibly manage, otherwise finding a better server is just a dream.

It's worthless trying to shut me down, i drive my life thinking my opinion is as valid as my neighbors ?

 

[HarryAimpotter]

5 hours ago, -=HipKat=- said:

One knife hit and it's done. Especially when it's someone camping in a choke point.

No, it not "done"...What you do is close the distance and shoot the camping medic. With 154 HP you have at least 3 seconds to kill the guy. Maybe you just don't have the skillset needed, but I usually can kill the camping knifer. And during next spawn the chokepoint is clear.

[-=HipKat=-]

3 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

No, it not "done"...What you do is close the distance and shoot the camping medic. With 154 HP you have at least 3 seconds to kill the guy. Maybe you just don't have the skillset needed, but I usually can kill the camping knifer. And during next spawn the chokepoint is clear.

I'm about 50/50 on killing the knifer, if he's close enough, tbh But it's not going to save your life, so one hit means you die from the knife, sk with a nade or hope a medic is near AND he knows enough to even heal you

Edited August 9, 2025 by -=HipKat=-

[boki]

On 8/9/2025 at 7:50 AM, HarryAimpotter said:

I'm sorry, I still don't understand your point. Yes, we both agreed that poison knives are (sometimes) frustrating. There are so many other  annoying ways to die. Like m97/flamer in corridor, panzer in spawn or camping on roof, mortar/arty/mines at chokepoints, etc...

Why do you only want to change poison knives? If you find poison knives particularly annoying then simply get better ? Move faster, kill faster, dodge better, etc ? 

Original game didn't have gas, double jump, pack drop, XP save, etc. No point of comparing jay1 to the original game. And besides there are plenty of other servers/mods where you can play as close to "the original" as you want.

  

Sure, it can be done  But that is not the issue in jay1 that @boki is talking about. It is very difficult to kill above average player in double-jump server like that. When they get hit by the (first) knife, they will either:

a) turn to your direction and kill you with 3-5 shots

b) double-jump away from the range of your knife and then kill you with 3-5 shots

If there is no poison effect, it is very easy to aim and kill a player, who can't shoot back

It might work better in silent1, because of no double-jump, but good luck with that tactic in jay1.  Very hard to pull-off. I personally can't remember the last time when someone first used a poison knife and then stabbed me to death.

  

I agree that m97 at close range can be extremely effective, but I don't see that too big of a problem, because like you said, its almost completely useless a long range. If you nerf the m97, then nobody will want to use that weapon. How many good/effective m97 players do you know in jay1? Besides you @PeruET, @kapman, @wuanachile there used to be this guy @ramsay_sausage and maybe few others? It is underused not exploited. It's no like behind every corner death by one shotgun-blast waits you.

I can see you cannot, because you do not take the cumulative effect into the account. Heavy weapons are limited to 1-2 instances for a good reason. Therefore, comparing them to a throwing knife is pointless. There are times where half of the enemy team is throwing knifes (more or less frequently) and playing becomes a true nightmare... constant feeling of disorientation and additional waiting to re-spawn. Why would anyone want that in the game? Like I said, there are times when I have it enough and leave the server solely for this.

a) turn to your direction and kill you with 3-5 shots ... in who's world is this happening on regular basis? There are only a few players who can pull this consistently off. Therefore, this is something that happens when someone is on low health, or the factor of luck is involved. People throwing knifes can also move and have other weapons too. And what happened to "become a better player" like you said it to me? Knife throwers do not have to become better?!

 

b) a very big majority of players do not throw their knives so they can stab you to death. They throw it for the disorientation effect, in hope they will get the upper hand, or simply to annoy you. Those who hope for the upper hand, switch to another weapon. Those who want to annoy you, just try to run away. Some are not even running away, but running around you, teasing you knowing it annoys you even more. Why are so many players blind to this and not seeing what it is producing?

Claiming how we never have top killers with throwing knifes is just showing how one does not understand its use. Why even trying to make it as a primary weapon, as it is clear it will never  be one, while at the same time is making our gaming experience worse?

Also, since the usage is increasing (and our frustration with it, lol), it becomes harder and harder to avoid knifes. Simply because those players increase their experience and know how to throw it so it is becoming harder to avoid it.

As a solution, how about disabling the disorientation part for 2 weeks and see how people respond to it? The hit damage is already quite big and the weapon has so many other advantages, this should not cripple its usage.

Edited August 10, 2025 by boki

[tipsy]

Offtopic, but last time I talked to Ramsay, he told me he got new apartment and moved in with his girlfriend. aka he got busy.

Edited August 10, 2025 by tipsy