ETPro HitBoxes

[S3ti]

Yep, biggest offsets occur at animation transitions when strafing fast from left to right or tapping crouch, and uneven ground seems to be a problem in some situations. But overall it seems so work fine

 

Here a few of mine:

 

 

Accidently set b_realhead 0, headbox just stays in the middle of the bodybox.

 

Then with b_realhead 1

 

 

Some fast jumps with crouch, headbox way better than I would have expected. Still the bodybox can be abused

 

 

 

Prediction error through shoving:

 

 

Transition to prone:

 

 

Biggest offsets:

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if SunLight should ever "get head" hear again, it's plausible

 

 

 

 

 

Net settings had no impact on the hitbox position, but very low settings can make you warp. All in all I think that it works quite good, considering the many variables coming together when playing online...though the crouch stuff could be overhauled at least for ETPro but I don't think that other mods do it better by now.

Edited June 6, 2013 by S3ti

[PiNoY]

omg looking at those hit boxes under terrain is now more of confusion to me as a player .

 

terrain or surface smoothness had really effects on them in combination of strafing and all.

 

all these are helpful guys, really interesting to see how this thread goes forward and the knowledge we are all feeding from.

 

good work, salut

[Moita67]

Another day another lesson! and a good lesson!

For example, now I understand certain scripts binds to, really!

Always made me mess when I saw a request for a bind script
  to make a key + left, + right ... or 180 and others.

Great job guys

[Death_Reincarnated]

Here are few things I have noticed over 8+ years of playing this game:

 

1) Burst firing lowers bullets pread (3-4 shots at a time).

2) Uneven terrain and strafing makes your aim much much worse.

3) Having a high ping means you can get shot while running away around the corner - and still dying lol.

4) With 3), just because you hear ting ting ting (i.e. 3x) doesnt mean you actually got 3 headshots.

5) Strafe-sprinting makes bullets spread much higher.

6) Pro players minimize mouse movement and maximize A/D keyboard movement in conjunction with knowing the map well and positioning.

7) Ammo/health crates can save you from a panzer - so can steps lol.

8) You can frag someone even though they are hiding behind a wall - due to size of hit-box.

9) Jump-crouching improves your aim.

10) Rezzing a team mate and hiding behind them makes you (mostly) invulnerable for a period of time.

 

[Gorilla]

Interesting read. Just goes to show the hitboxes are not as bad as some would make them out to be.

Just to add to Deaths list -

 

11. Doesn't matter how smart or good you are, the mortor will always find you, always. 

12. You will get randomly panzered without ever seeing where it came from, they weren't aiming for you either.

13. There is always someone that likes to leave spawn at a snails pace, stops to have a cup of tea, check facebook, then leave spawn. You will always be behind them.

14. A medic will run past your dieing body without reviving at least 3-4 times per map.

[SunLight]

In my opinion the most important thing here is, there are bugs, but it's not the player's fault, i.e. it cannot be abused by enemy network settings as many players always said and still believed (I can't even count the times I had been insulted for this).

Only movement (warp) can be abused by settings or downloads/uploads, not hitboxes.

 

Yesterday when we tested, I tried also connecting using the same udp proxy I had used before to simulate pings in lan. At first I tried just a delay, my ping went from 98 stable to 198 stable, I asked S3ti if I warped, he said no.

In order to warp I had to set packet loss, random ping, and 15 maxpackets (which is not allowed on normal etpro servers).

 

If I looked at my lagometer it was all yellow above, and below it was really uneven, but he said my hitboxes weren't more bugged than before.

After all, if you know how antilag works (stores the same snaps the server sends to you, then takes them back for hit detection) it's obvious that enemy ping can't play a role.

 

Maybe the way they move, for example in one of those screeshot where my headbox was off I was tapping 'C' like mad, while strafing. And that 'abuses' crouch animation.

 

---

 

As you can see, the bodybox is almost never out of place, that's because it's just a box around player origin, and it's easy to calculate for the server. The headbox, when they made 'realhed' code, is more prone to bugs it seems, because it's linked to player animations, unlike the bodybox (which is much more simple: stand or prone but the animation you do doesn't count)

[S3ti]

Some ancient (2005/06/07 ) articles/threads came into my mind about some fps dependant flaws, antilag and other stuff that should be considered when 'odd' stuff happens in game. It's more complex than blaming bugged hitboxes (which do exist but effects are negligible in most cases) and player connection settings.

 

It's no secret when you were playing etpro in it's peak and have been discussed over and over again, but since I see most of the players here never played it and/or only public servers they may be good reads for those interested. And all of that stuff applies to any other mod too...by now.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20060603142510/http://www.xfire.be/?x=column&mode=item&id=916

 

http://bani.anime.net/banimod/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6454&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=prediction+errors+antilag+madscientist&sid=2d67dbd7aa1d09e7bb77298002885d6d

 

http://www.crossfire.nu/articles/view/id/406

 

And here some basic netsettings like cl_maxpackets (related to fps) explained, which some people always use as an excuse for not hitting well. It's for Quake 3 but applies to ET as well, though have in mind maxpackets are limited to 100 in ET and can't be set to 125. Basically even if you have set cl_maxpackets 100 it doesn't mean you are sending 100, in fact if you are playing with 125 fps (stable!) you will never send more than 63 packets, with 333 fps max. 83 packets...but read yourself

 

http://www.funender.com/quake/console/q3connection.html

Edited June 7, 2013 by S3ti

[SunLight]

I removed the download, since I found out a bug in it, regarding the bullet origin.

 

Basically, the bullet origin offset is real, but is NOT fps dependant and it's *very* small, due only to server rounding.

 

43 fps
AVERAGE bull. offs. (60 samples) (0.385 0.533 -0.125)
AVERAGE bull. offs. (60 samples) (0.397 0.478 -0.125)
 

The bug was due to the fact (for those who like tech explanations) that I took the view origin from cg.refdef_current->vieworg, which is correct.

But what fooled me is that it's correct only after a certain function is called in the code. And not in the place where I used to draw that line, it was the previous frame point of view, hence the offset.

 

The hitboxes are NOT bugged instead, there is no bug there .

Only the bullet origin, so forget what I said about bullet origin and fps. Everyone makes mistakes, I guess, I will upload a fixed version when I finish it.

 

p.s.

 

 

S3ti: (joking, after the game crashed) SunLight, you're such a bad coder...

 

 

he was right, I guess

[S3ti]

I removed the download, since I found out a bug in it, regarding the bullet origin.

 

Basically, the bullet origin offset is real, but is NOT fps dependant and it's *very* small, due only to server rounding.

 

43 fps

AVERAGE bull. offs. (60 samples) (0.385 0.533 -0.125)

AVERAGE bull. offs. (60 samples) (0.397 0.478 -0.125)

 

The bug was due to the fact (for those who like tech explanations) that I took the view origin from cg.refdef_current->vieworg, which is correct.

But what fooled me is that it's correct only after a certain function is called in the code. And not in the place where I used to draw that line, it was the previous frame point of view, hence the offset.

 

Good to know, looking forward for the fixed version. At least we can be sure then that we shoot from our real viewpoint (or close to) Maybe the little offset is simply by grid alignment then...

 

I got curious how this all works and looks in Jaymod, which has also cvars to control different styles of hitboxes, antilag and debugging.

 

See the manual @ page 43 and 109-115

http://server.twcclan.org/wolfet/jaymod.pdf

 

Will upload jaymod later on the server and see how it goes

Edited June 7, 2013 by S3ti

[SunLight]

Will upload jaymod later on the server and see how it goes

 

you can't use it with jaymod, it's based on etpro *only*

 

now that you mention it, while I'm basically rewriting it from scratch, you gave me a great idea... i.e. make it engine-based, and not mod-based, so with only 1 app we can test hitboxes with any existing (and future) mod...

 

the only thing I have to figure out is the exact moment of the shot, the rest (copying the player model) can be done from the engine easily

 

the view origin is obviously known to the engine, since it has to render that scene.

[Masa_1964]

Too much data Why... why not just play and enjoy?

 

Masa_1964

[S3ti]

you can't use it with jaymod, it's based on etpro *only*

 

now that you mention it, while I'm basically rewriting it from scratch, you gave me a great idea... i.e. make it engine-based, and not mod-based, so with only 1 app we can test hitboxes with any existing (and future) mod...

 

I know was talking about the basic different hitmodes in jaymod, and by setting debug cvars it's at least possible to make the hitboxes visible for now...And if you are able to make it engine based, that would be awesome.

 

Too much data Why... why not just play and enjoy?

 

Masa_1964

 

Some like rocket science you know

Edited June 7, 2013 by S3ti

[PiNoY]

Masa , this is enjoyment also

 

Data is good, am learning my 101 here too. I lack time to do what they are doing and learning. So somebody is doing it for me I guess, even if I could not cope up with most, I still managed to read them word by word, the heck I dont understand most and still finish reading them, then I go play and think about it.

[Moita67]

Hi guys

I understand you Masa but believe me,pinoy it is right!

For new players this kind of topics helps a lot to have more fun in the game.

You know why?
 

Because I can kill you many more times! 
 
I follow this topic from the beginning and believe that my accuracy is much better now than before,

and that because i understand better how the game works.

 

Because of this topic and others as "mouse settings", "fps / lag" and others very interesting.

Sometimes may seem boring to read as much information word for word, but in the end

when you will play with all this information helps improve your performance, Believe!

 

 

Performance in game = Great fun in game

 

Regards

[S3ti]

Fired the server up with Jaymod and some bots to look at the different g_hitmode boxes (6 modes to choose from), some are crappy and some seem very accurate in model tracking and bounding (as can be seen in the manual already but still interesting to see ingame). Of course they lack the model copies but still some screenshots for you. Curious how it will work out when SunLight finished his mod and when actually playing 
 

 

 

g_hitmode 4 - This is the standard one which the server set when g_hitmode 0 was chosen.

 

g_hitmode 5 - would like to see how that feels in a real game.

 

g_hitmode 6 - Looks good but seems pretty intense for the server as you can see the snapshots already went down to 10, that with only 5 bots and 1 player on the server. Didn't change memsettings like com_hunkMegs or other performance stuff for now, maybe it can be optimized.

 

That one reminded me that comic

 

 

 

I follow this topic from the beginning and believe that my accuracy is much better now than before,

and that because i understand better how the game works.

 

Because of this topic and others as "mouse settings", "fps / lag" and others very interesting.

Sometimes may seem boring to read as much information word for word, but in the end

when you will play with all this information helps improve your performance, Believe!

 

 

Performance in game = Great fun in game

 

Regards

 

It's not like that information is a secret or wasn't discussed a thousand times when ET had its peaktime, but some threads and articles were made years ago and many sites are also gone meanwhile. Also there is much wrong stuff and misinformation spreaded which some people still believe is true. I think it would be a good idea to do a kind of summarized tutorial in the end, or just extend that .pdf SunLight made already. For the public players who are looking to improve (that not by whining or accusing) still interesting if you have never heard about that stuff I think

Edited June 7, 2013 by S3ti