parrot Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 @Ghostwind Sounds pretty cool (German model). Interesting to note German economy is the strongest in Europe and yet they manage to do that And yes, unfortunately, politics is divisive here. Too many people taking things they hear as indisputable fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwind Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 @Ghostwind Sounds pretty cool (German model). Interesting to note German economy is the strongest in Europe and yet they manage to do that And yes, unfortunately, politics is divisive here. Too many people taking things they hear as indisputable fact. I have to commend the US, though, on the passing of this law. Even if it does not work, at least it has set the wheels of change in motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwind Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 here is a link that explains the german system. There are a few mistakes in the article, but you get an idea of what our system is all about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulJAHmon Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) I don't like government's fingers in our lives too much either, however, when it comes to things as important and fundamental as the health of our families and children, it should be. Those are the kind of thing that should be the governments first order of business. School, health, and safety. I worked hard all my life building gorgeous houses for the wealthy to live in and luxurious yachts for them to play on, and finally in 2006, we finally bought our 2nd home with $50,000 down payment that I had earned as "sweat-equity" fixing up our first modest fixer-upper/starter home. Then we promptly lost it after only 2 1/2 years because: a) the housing bubble burst - because the real estate and lending markets are so poorly regulated; and my wife had to have an emergency hystorectomy after she fell down our stairs which cost us in the neighborhood of $25,000 that we did not have. We are still struggling to recover and pay off the debts that we incurred. I don't believe that it is right for there not to be a system to support families like mine in situations like those. Am I wrong?? I don't know if every part of the health care law is good or not, but I do know that I strongly feel that in a country as great as our own, hardworking americans who play by the rules should not be in fear that one sudden accident or health issue can tank all their hopes and dreams. Edited July 2, 2012 by soulJAHmon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kami Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just for those who are interested in "information" (also known by some as the "make brain hurt thingy"): http://lifehacker.com/5922382/how-will-the-new-health-care-law-affect-me http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/vb8vs/eli5_what_exactly_is_obamacare.../c530lfx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosman Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I have absolutely no idea in which direction you mean this, but if this is a republican opinion then, well... There will be no euthanasia, because the healthcare will cover it. Thanks for the republican vs Democrate argument that really adds value to your comment. What i mean is a situation where a person/patient who has no money can't buy healthcare inadvertently gets kicked to the curb so resorting to "pulling the plug" or Suicide may seem the only way out of a bad situation, and it may not even be a persons decision which way to take things at some point. Thats what i mean. As far as medicaid/medicare goes. Without it my family would never be able to get the care we need for my mother especially when the care provider rapes people's or the gov'ts wallets by charging upwards of $8,000 a month for my mothers basic needs compared to other elderly people in their 80's. I do believe it is our social responsibility to help pay into a system that helps others who can't help themselves, its the regulation of that system that goes more unchecked than it should go. I can tell you it doesn't cost but a small fraction of that $8000 a month for my mothers care. I met a guy that worked in that field until he found out how much money got sent down to the developers of the buildings who owned the buildings and services where people like my mother are at and he couldn't believe the cash cow it was, making millionaires into multi-millionaires. He started working in the field because he wanted to help people but ended up feeling dirty about how much people paid for the services there, and couldn't keep working there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolf Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thanks for the republican vs Democrate argument that really adds value to your comment. What i mean is a situation where a person/patient who has no money can't buy healthcare inadvertently gets kicked to the curb so resorting to "pulling the plug" or Suicide may seem the only way out of a bad situation, and it may not even be a persons decision which way to take things at some point. Thats what i mean. I asked in in that sense because close to all republicans are against obamacare, and I really don't know whether you're in favor of obamacare or not. I personally thinks that with obamacare that pulling the plug will be less likely than without obamacare. And hence, "Here comes euthanasia," sounds to me like a major contradiction with "Obama is trying to do something quick before he gets canned." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Just for those who are interested in "information" (also known by some as the "make brain hurt thingy"): http://lifehacker.co...e-law-affect-me http://www.reddit.co...care.../c530lfx lol @bosman: What you are asking for is stronger regulation of private industry. If we reject communism/socialism, yet deplore the excesses of unchecked capitalistic society, then what we are left with is strong government regulation of a free market economy. In other words, allow the nursing home operator a margin for profit, as a reward for his investment and work, but don't allow him to gouge the people or the government. You're correct, no one should have to feel suicide or euthanasia is the only remaining option. Comprehensive coverage will ensure that doesn't happen. Edited July 2, 2012 by parrot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwind Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Just for those who are interested in "information" (also known by some as the "make brain hurt thingy"): http://lifehacker.co...e-law-affect-me http://www.reddit.co...care.../c530lfx problem solved: https://www.facebook.com/notes/steve-fitzgerald/what-exactly-is-obamacare-and-what-did-it-change-explained-like-youre-a-5-year-o/10150906130595642 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosman Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Im not invested in this topic, nor am i extreme about it but i am looking at what i believe the long term down the road possibility may prove to be true. Here is to hoping for the right solution to healthcare. I am not a politician or understand the ins and outs of health care i just know like others, many of us cannot afford healthcare and those who are really scraping by are the ones hurt the most. The people with the financial means who can afford the best of care really benefit the most since they get a break bigger than any common man. Like i said though, I don't claim to know how this should best play out. Perhaps this is the best route, I'd like to see the experts weigh in on it objectively for an extended period of debate allowing regular americans to voice their perspectives so things the politicians didn't think of get aired and reviewed. It would be nice if us americans can see the cost/benefit of a plan like this. Many people are not seeing what other see so by thoroughly exposing the positives and negatives is a good start. I apologize for bringing up the extreme scenarios without explaining and investing more thought into what i wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwind Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I think this sums up the "Pro healthcare" camp, even if it is slightly on the offensive side. http://www.fark.com/comments/7193314/77836638#c77836638 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parrot Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 @bosman I think you are right on the need for a dispassionate exploration of the bill. Ghostwind's link does a good job of that. As for the rest, I've been guilty of popping off first and thinking later on many an occasion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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