ET Jay #1 Are players required to help with objectives?

[80sDUDE]

20 hours ago, SpiralSentinel said:

Hey everyone, I have a question regarding objective play on F|A Servers I've noticed situations where only a couple of players are actively trying to complete objectives while other stay back farming kills or not helping the team advance. I understand everyone hjas different playstyles, but I noticed Rule #24 states that team play is required. Please help clarify this.

I can see that you’re really focused and genuinely want to be helpful. I think you’ve been a great addition to this server, my friend. I’ve been keeping an eye on things, and I can already tell you have more capability than a lot of people. Thanks, and keep it up! I usually hold back on sharing my opinions because of my shyness and depression, but I see you saying the things we’re all thinking—thanks, Spiral Guy.

[SpiralSentinel]

2 minutes ago, 80sDUDE said:

I can see that you’re really focused and genuinely want to be helpful. I think you’ve been a great addition to this server, my friend. I’ve been keeping an eye on things, and I can already tell you have more capability than a lot of people. Thanks, and keep it up! I usually hold back on sharing my opinions because of my shyness and depression, but I see you saying the things we’re all thinking—thanks, Spiral Guy.

Man, I genuinely appreciate those words, my friend! That means more to me than you know. I'm just trying to bring some positivity, teamwork, and camaraderie to a game I've loved for years. It's people like you who make a community worth being part of. Much love and respect, brother! ❤️

[HarryAimpotter]

I don't have any statistics on this, but based only on my subjective observations of almost a decade in different FA servers - Team with most frags almost always wins.

Exept for only a few maps where this is not the rule. So yeah, fragging helps A LOT.

[RASHOMON]

Also, don't forget that ET is a dead game - I wouldn't be too harsh on the few players that still play the game (except obvious trolls). Back in the days, I remember myself going hardcore on objectives because it seemed to me that ET was the real deal and that the game truly mattered. Long gone are those days ^^

[knw]

7 hours ago, HarryAimpotter said:

I don't have any statistics on this, but based only on my subjective observations of almost a decade in different FA servers - Team with most frags almost always wins.

Exept for only a few maps where this is not the rule. So yeah, fragging helps A LOT.

From a silent 1 perspective, I've always tried to balance the number of people who are capable smg users on each team. IMO (like Harry's), that is a strong indicator.

[SpiralSentinel]

57 minutes ago, RASHOMON said:

Also, don't forget that ET is a dead game - I wouldn't be too harsh on the few players that still play the game (except obvious trolls). Back in the days, I remember myself going hardcore on objectives because it seemed to me that ET was the real deal and that the game truly mattered. Long gone are those days ^^

I respect your perspective, RASHOMON, but I have to disagree with the idea that those days are long gone.

 

In my opinion, that kind of mentality is part of what pushes people away from the game. When we start accepting that teamwork, objectives, and cooperation are things of the past, what kind of experience are we preserving for the players who still enjoy ET or the new players who might discover it?

 

I understand ET isn't what it was 20 years ago, but that doesn't mean we should give up on what made it great.

 

I'm not asking anyone to play like they're in a competitive tournament. I'm simply encouraging people to work together, support their teammates, and play the objectives while having fun.

 

I genuinely enjoy playing on these servers, and that's exactly why I care enough to speak up. I'd rather be part of bringing that spirit back than accepting that it's gone for good.

[captnconcrete]

19 minutes ago, SpiralSentinel said:

I respect your perspective, RASHOMON, but I have to disagree with the idea that those days are long gone.

 

In my opinion, that kind of mentality is part of what pushes people away from the game. When we start accepting that teamwork, objectives, and cooperation are things of the past, what kind of experience are we preserving for the players who still enjoy ET or the new players who might discover it?

 

I understand ET isn't what it was 20 years ago, but that doesn't mean we should give up on what made it great.

 

I'm not asking anyone to play like they're in a competitive tournament. I'm simply encouraging people to work together, support their teammates, and play the objectives while having fun.

 

I genuinely enjoy playing on these servers, and that's exactly why I care enough to speak up. I'd rather be part of bringing that spirit back than accepting that it's gone for good.

love this right here......and i agree!!!!

 

play the game like it was supposed to be played not all the bloated BS.....the teamwork the way et pushes u to engage in one another  earned respect this new fenagled et everyone loves to play  is not pushing any of this .. hence goof off trolls .. and fragwhores chasing a rating in a 20 sum yr old game ..trying to get that nostalgia they once loved. 

 

sorry i could go on for a while but ill keep it short .lol

Edited Friday at 08:40 PM by captnconcrete

[RASHOMON]

33 minutes ago, SpiralSentinel said:

I respect your perspective, RASHOMON, but I have to disagree with the idea that those days are long gone.

 

In my opinion, that kind of mentality is part of what pushes people away from the game. When we start accepting that teamwork, objectives, and cooperation are things of the past, what kind of experience are we preserving for the players who still enjoy ET or the new players who might discover it?

 

I understand ET isn't what it was 20 years ago, but that doesn't mean we should give up on what made it great.

 

I'm not asking anyone to play like they're in a competitive tournament. I'm simply encouraging people to work together, support their teammates, and play the objectives while having fun.

 

I genuinely enjoy playing on these servers, and that's exactly why I care enough to speak up. I'd rather be part of bringing that spirit back than accepting that it's gone for good.

To each their own. I have 2 hours of playtime a day, I'm not "wasting" it dying again and again to a flamethrower in the Goldrush bank or to a panzer waiting at the anti tank gun of Oasis. The way FA#1 operates does not encourage teamwork and objective plays : heavy spam (that's a euphemism), crowded obj entries, short respawn times, heavey weapons galore and a LOT of players... That's not a criticism, I love it here but trying to do the objective seems like a hassle more than anything else. I don't understand how some players are fine dying 10 times in a row (without firing any bullet) to repair the tank to see it being instantly blown up again by 15 landmines triggering at the same time :D). Mad respect to those who are stubborn enough to connect everyday for this but it is a task far too tedious for me!

[SpiralSentinel]

I understand your frustration, and you bring up some valid points about the server configuration. But I think you're also highlighting exactly what I've been trying to say.

 

An engineer shouldn't have to die 10 times trying to repair a tank alone. That's where teamwork comes in. Medics providing revives, soldiers clearing the way, and teammates working together to advance.

 

Nobody is asking you to waste your two hours repeatedly dying for an objective. But when everyone decides it's someone else's problem, the few players actually trying to advance the game are left doing everything themselves.

 

I enjoy the FA servers too, which is exactly why I care about this discussion. I'm not asking for competitive-level gameplay. I'm simply advocating for cooperation, teamwork, and helping one another.

 

If we want ET to survive, I believe we should encourage the things that made this game great rather than accept that those days are gone.

 

At the end of the day, everyone deserves to have fun. I just believe teamwork should be part of that fun.

[Vice86]

You’re playing on the wrong server for that, imho.

What you're describing is the average ETL experience. Come to ETL—where it’s not exactly a scrim, but also not quite a jay1 experience either.

We have so many different servers with unique settings. Each focus depends entirely on the server configuration rather than an overall rulebook applied to "all" servers. However, our wiki and core rules still have to apply to everyone across all of our platforms.

Maintaining a server is a delicate balancing act. If you change a single rule or the slightest setting, you can end up losing players faster than you think. The same goes for how rules are interpreted.

Is the game dead? Well, in a way. Five years ago, Enemy Territory had a global player base in the thousands, and it was much more forgiving. Nowadays, we’re down to the hundreds, sometimes less. It’s simply not the 2010s anymore.

## Our Servers at a Glance

 

* Jay1: Designed to please as many players as possible at once. It’s highly successful at that, which is why we don't change a winning team. Enforcing strict rules here would just drive people away.

* Jay2: The European alternative to jay1, featuring additional vsays. It's my second favorite FA server because of those vsays, but sadly it’s not as popular anymore. EU players seem to prefer jay1 nowadays; increased internet speeds mean people aren't as bothered by playing across the globe with pings of 70–100 instead of the 120–150 we used to see.

* Jay3 / b1: A jaymod beginner server built for fast XP. Expect lots of spam and classic jaymod gameplay. Everything here is fast—fast firing, fast respawns. At some point, you feel like Max Payne in bullet time. I love it from time to time.

* S2 / B2: A beginner-friendly server packed with bots and settings optimized for quick XP. It features low spawn times and reduced heavy weapon damage, and medics are rewarded with adrenaline and +16 HP. It’s very popular and essentially the exact opposite of NQ.

* ETL1 / ETL2: Objective-focused play with vanilla ETL settings, without being too "ETpro" or scrim-heavy. Teamwork and strategic coordination are required to advance. If a team sucks, they lose—the server settings do not forgive a lack of teamplay.

* Silent 1: A US server running the silent mod, aiming to please a broad crowd. It features a typical silent focus with less heavy weapon spam. Teamplay is more common here, but when the server is full, it feels a lot like jay1. Fortunately, due to decreased heavy weapon damage, the gameplay isn't quite as chaotic—you won't see poisonous knives flying through the map like glitter at a birthday party.

* Hardcore: Our friendly-fire server running silent mod. This is the closest we get to ETpro scrim servers.

* NQ1 (My Home Server): Classic NoQuarter gameplay with massive heavy weapon spam. It's a very heavy-weapon-friendly server with smaller hitboxes than other mods. Medics are equalized at 140 HP for everyone, and nobody gets adrenaline except the one who actually needs it: the engineer. Objective play is a completely different experience here. The gameplay is highly demanding and too chaotic for many to wrap their heads around, but for the average NQ enthusiast, the crazier, the better.

 

## On Rules and Teamplay

As you can see, we host many servers but share only one core teamplay rule. The understanding of that rule depends heavily on the context, changing from server to server.

Essentially, the rule boils down to this: Don't be useless when your team is losing.

That doesn't mean you are being useless by killing bots or focusing on side tasks, as long as it ultimately contributes to the match. We don't dictate how people should play. If we did, the servers would be empty within hours.

## A Personal Note

I noticed you withdrew your application, which is a shame. To be honest, having a conversation like this is incredibly refreshing, so I don't quite understand why it brought up negative emotions for you. It’s just a discussion. Sometimes things don't go exactly as planned, but there is no need to feel bad about it.

No one is mad at you. If anything, I'm grateful for the chat because it sparked my curiosity. It has been the most interesting thing to read around here in weeks. 🤷🏽‍♂️ I was really looking forward to more intellectual discourse like this. 🫠🙂‍↕️

[SpiralSentinel]

Let me make something perfectly clear. I didn't withdraw my application because I couldn't handle a discussion or because things didn't go my way. I withdrew because I'm tired of being questioned, criticized, and given shit for trying to promote the very teamwork your rules supposedly encourage.

 

And frankly, telling me there's "no need to feel bad" and acting confused about my frustration is incredibly condescending. You don't get to decide how someone should feel about their experiences.

 

You say the core rule is not to be useless when your team is losing, but then turn around and explain why you don't want to enforce expectations for teamwork. So which is it? Because from where I'm standing, keeping the server populated seems to matter more than the actual quality of gameplay.

 

I'm not asking anyone to play exactly how I want. I'm asking why basic teamwork in a team-based, objective-driven game has become such a controversial concept.

 

I joined with genuine intentions of contributing something positive to this community. Instead, I've spent more time defending those intentions than actually enjoying the game.

 

Keep the admin position. I'm not interested in dealing with that bullshit anymore. I respect the game too much to pretend this is what good teamwork looks like.

[RASHOMON]

8 hours ago, SpiralSentinel said:

Let me make something perfectly clear. I didn't withdraw my application because I couldn't handle a discussion or because things didn't go my way. I withdrew because I'm tired of being questioned, criticized, and given shit for trying to promote the very teamwork your rules supposedly encourage.

 

And frankly, telling me there's "no need to feel bad" and acting confused about my frustration is incredibly condescending. You don't get to decide how someone should feel about their experiences.

 

You say the core rule is not to be useless when your team is losing, but then turn around and explain why you don't want to enforce expectations for teamwork. So which is it? Because from where I'm standing, keeping the server populated seems to matter more than the actual quality of gameplay.

 

I'm not asking anyone to play exactly how I want. I'm asking why basic teamwork in a team-based, objective-driven game has become such a controversial concept.

 

I joined with genuine intentions of contributing something positive to this community. Instead, I've spent more time defending those intentions than actually enjoying the game.

 

Keep the admin position. I'm not interested in dealing with that bullshit anymore. I respect the game too much to pretend this is what good teamwork looks like.

I'm very sorry to hear that and I hope I was not the main deterrent to your decision - I'm not a FA member and I'm sorry (vis-à-vis FA too) if I played any part in that - since I decided to keep on discussing the topic. What I didn't really make clear in my remarks is that you are right to expect basic teamwork in an objective-driven game since ET was built this way. However, it wasn't built around max servers like FA#1. You can expect coordination and involvment in a small to moderate server population and the game was designed for these kind of servers. I don't think every 50 players from the FA#1 server rushing to plant and defuse a dynamite at the same time in a single point who lead to a pleasant experience for anyone involved. The mere number of players shooting in there would create a chaos that would not be very enjoyable, precisely because the objectives, the way to complete them and to defend them wasn't implemented for 50 players panzering, artying, mortaring, nading, mobiling around the same hotspot.

edit: It is why on certain maps, the objective is really hard to complete because it is too easily defendible. The prime example is Goldrush: the gold is easily defendible (the map version helped too because it created alternate ways of going to the bank for the axis) because you can spam the bank entrance with way more means than what the ET developpers thought of when they built the original map. And adding 10 more players to the assault would not fundamentally change how things operate. Whenever I get close to the bank entrance to grind a couple of frags inside the bank room, I'm met with a flury of defenders and their arsenal. And if I'm lucky, I can kill the 4 or 5 main defenders but I'm met with reinforcments from the short respawn times. These settings create inbalance on certain maps like Goldrush or Teuthonia.

 

On the contrary: double jump has made maps way too easy for allies on other maps: they can jump over defenses that were not built for this setting. I'm thinking of supplydepot where there are no restrictions on double jump simply because it's too easy to do. It is a competitive map. If you place it on a 60 slot server with different settings, it won't work as intended. The main flaw in FA settings as they are is that most of the maps played weren't intended for this population. There simply aren't enough maps for huge servers, like the MLB ones. I don't like them because they are way too huge for me, obj takes hours to complete but they are more balanced towards fast respawn, double jump, etc. So FA has to pick maps into the regular mappool, hence the flaws mentionned above hence different playstyles emerging due to the imperfection of the objective-based, cooperation experience that doesn't and cannot work in an optimal way here.  

 

In a way, #FA1 is the opposite of the original ET spirit due to the settings and the sheer number of players that can play simultaneously. It may be regrettable but a lot of people find their fun in this.

Edited 18 hours ago by RASHOMON

[SpiralSentinel]

RASHOMON, I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective and for the respect you've shown throughout this discussion. I want to make it clear that you had nothing to do with my decision to leave FA.

 

You make some excellent points about server population, map design, respawn times, and double jumping. I understand that FA#1 isn't designed to deliver the same experience as traditional Enemy Territory.

 

However, I still believe that server settings and player attitudes are two separate issues. Nobody expects 50 players to rush the same objective, but reviving teammates, supporting engineers, communicating, and helping your team advance shouldn't be unreasonable expectations.

 

My biggest concern has never been losing maps or failing objectives. It's watching experienced players disregard teamwork and seeing that attitude become accepted as normal. In my opinion, that mentality does more damage to the spirit of Enemy Territory than any server setting ever could.

 

I've already made my decision to leave FA, and I have no hard feelings toward you whatsoever. I joined with good intentions because I genuinely care about this game and its future. Unfortunately, my experience within the community wasn't what I'd hoped it would be.

 

I respect that people enjoy the game differently, but I'll always believe that teamwork, sportsmanship, and respect are what made Enemy Territory special in the first place.

 

Thank you again for having a meaningful and respectful conversation with me. I wish you nothing but the best.

 

— SpiralSentinel

[HarryAimpotter]

3 hours ago, SpiralSentinel said:

Nobody expects 50 players to rush the same objective, but reviving teammates, supporting engineers, communicating, and helping your team advance shouldn't be unreasonable expectations.

I think you have too narrow view of what constitutes teamwork. Just because you don't have a personal medic following you around with a syringe in hand doesn't mean medics aren't doing their job. A highly skilled medic dealing 15K–20K damage can be just as useful to the team.

Of course, there are medics who will run right past your body without reviving you. Those players deserve to be called out and publicly shamed.

But there are also engineers so focused on "completing the objective" that they don't even realize they're actually helping the opposing team.

Allies bringing the truck to the depot before capturing the flag in Supply Depot is one example.

Another example of engineers sabotaging their own team is when Allies engineers build the second ladder on Oil Kombinat.

So yeah, I think it goes both ways.

Edited 5 hours ago by HarryAimpotter

[Snake in the Grass]

@SpiralSentinel seems you already came up with your conclusion, for the sake of the argument, let's take an example: 

 

Imagine a game 20v20,  and a core of team with engies and medics focusing on the objective, and physically near it. The rest of the team is around the map. The core team is doing good but no progress, efforts seem to be fruitless.

Now, one of them is a top fragging medic/soldier now conveniently relocates between enemy spawn and objective, effectively cutting reinforcement but distant from obj location, which in a number of observed cases, was bringing the biggest share of added value the team was needing.

I have seen this case, even some engineers at obj complaining not enough support at obj.

An excellent example is the mortar. Above 20v20, they are often top fraggers of the game.

Another example is snipers, which if silencing defusing engineers only, would have a low frag count and are not located near the obj, but actually contributed more to the game that objective engineers.

 

I have observed so many times. Yet people are complaining they understand everything about teamwork. On Italy map, is it more important to focus on the jeep or on the CP ? we actually need both and it highly depends on the phase of the game; my own assessment, before entering the obj tower, allies should have a real but limited part of the team focusing on attacking/defending the CP, and i'm happy if around 20% of the team is working towards that end (i.e. 3-5 teammates in a 20p team).

 

In the end, the real teamwork contribution is really complex to evaluate, even when speccing, and i wouldn't that quick to evaluate.

 

Also, please consider @Vice86's post, he took time to give you the difference in game style and experience for the various FA servers.