ET Jay #1 Are players required to help with objectives?

[SpiralSentinel]

Hey everyone, I have a question regarding objective play on F|A Servers I've noticed situations where only a couple of players are actively trying to complete objectives while other stay back farming kills or not helping the team advance. I understand everyone hjas different playstyles, but I noticed Rule #24 states that team play is required. Please help clarify this.

[Armagedonyx]

1 hour ago, SpiralSentinel said:

Hey everyone, I have a question regarding objective play on F|A Servers I've noticed situations where only a couple of players are actively trying to complete objectives while other stay back farming kills or not helping the team advance. I understand everyone hjas different playstyles, but I noticed Rule #24 states that team play is required. Please help clarify this.

Rule 24 says "don't be useless when your team is losing", so you have to at least somewhat contribute to do something on the team. Farming kills ain't considered being unhelpful, as it allows one team to push the enemy defense to it's last trenches. It is however considered being "useless" when you do things like staying passive at spawn. 

[SpiralSentinel]

I appreciate the response, Armagedonyx.

 

I understand that farming kills can contribute to a team's success by weakening enemy defenses, and I have absolutely no issue with that when it's actually helping the team advance.

 

But here's where I disagree with the idea that getting kills automatically means someone is contributing.

 

If I'm playing engineer, repeatedly pushing an objective alone, while multiple medics are hanging back farming kills, not reviving teammates, and making no effort to help us advance, how is that considered teamwork?

 

Rule #24 clearly states that team play is required. So where exactly do we draw the line between contributing to the team and simply playing for personal stats?

 

I've also been reading through the F|A admin guides and older forum discussions. Experienced admins have raised similar concerns about objective play, team balancing, and players refusing to advance. We're expected to keep teams balanced, but balanced numbers and XP don't necessarily mean balanced gameplay. One team can have players actively working together while the other has players doing their own thing.I joined this community and applied to become an admin because I genuinely want to help keep Enemy Territory alive. To me, that means more than keeping servers populated. It means promoting teamwork, fairness, kindness, and respect so people actually enjoy coming back.And honestly, the respect side of things concerns me too. I've experienced unnecessary personal remarks in all-chat, including being told to "lay off the drugs." Rule #27 addresses trolling and hostility, and I believe those standards should apply equally to everyone. I'm not asking for special treatment as an admin apprentice, just basic respect. I'm not trying to dictate how everyone plays. I'm trying to understand what we're actually trying to promote as a community. If team play is required, shouldn't we be encouraging and protecting the very teamwork that makes Enemy Territory an objective-based game?

 

That's what I came here to support.

 

— SpiralSentinel

[Vice86]

Playing piano in Venice for 15 minutes with 3 teammates while sitting in discord with said teammates in laughter = considered useless

 

Playing piano every once in a while = no big deal

 

The reason behind the rule is, because in the past people have been utterly useless.

Utterly utterly useless...

Standing in spawn farming XP by giving ammo to the bots in the spawn, while their team needs definetly help. (We do allow xp farming in general though, as long as it doesn't harm the team significantly)

 

The list of examples go on... 

 

It depends on each person and case.

 

If i ask a competitive player, propably everyone with an  accuracy below 25% is useless... 

 

So it's a rule much more directed towards crystal clear cases of beeing useless...

But i do not recommend to dictate people with this rule.

I would kindly ask them via pm,  if they could help to try to help a bit more with the objectives, and remind them to be helpful.

You have to keep in mind that we provide Pub servers with a huge variety of players with all forms of people. 

Our goal is to maintain a good playerbase without overruling them. 

Edited Thursday at 09:44 AM by Vice86

[tipsy]

I belive ev

3 minutes ago, Vice86 said:

 

But i do not recommend to dictate people with this rule.

I would kindly ask them via pm,  if they could help to try to help a bit more with the objectives, and remind them to be helpful.

You have to keep in mind that we provide Pub servers with a huge variety of players with all forms of people. 

Our goal is to maintain a good playerbase without overruling them. 

+1

 

Yes, it's a pub server; you can't force anyone to go for objective, even when they are fkn around and later cry when the team loses. I am not being sarcastic. 

[SpiralSentinel]

I appreciate both of your responses, and I understand that F|A is a public community where everyone should be able to have fun without being forced to play competitively. I respect that.

But I think there's another side to this that deserves consideration.

What happens when the freedom of players who don't care about objectives starts ruining the experience for players who do?

We put a lot of emphasis on keeping teams fair and balanced, which I completely support. But how do we actually achieve fair teams when half the players aren't contributing to the objectives? We can balance player counts, XP, and skill levels all day long, but that doesn't necessarily create a balanced game when one team is working together and the other isn't.

I'm not saying everyone needs to play competitively or that players should be punished for having fun. I enjoy the social side of ET just as much as anyone. But there's a difference between occasionally messing around and consistently ignoring the teamwork that makes this game what it is.

My concern is that when this becomes the normal experience, we risk pushing away the very players who genuinely care about the game, the community, and helping others. That includes people who might otherwise become dedicated members and future admins.

I joined F|A because I believe in kindness, fairness, teamwork, and keeping this game alive. I want to contribute positively to this community.

I just think we should ask ourselves whether we're doing enough to protect the experience of players who actually want to work together and play the game as a team.

I'm not asking for strict enforcement or punishment. I'm asking whether there's a better middle ground that respects casual players while also encouraging meaningful teamwork.

I'd genuinely like to hear everyone's thoughts.

[RNGesus]

So the spirit of the rule from my understanding is this is essentially pub matches. Some players sadly a large portion in some cases do not even know the objective of the map. I would say requiring and or punishing a player for not helping is not in the FA spirit. Certainly inhibiting on purpose is an entirely different scenario. Think of the servers more a friendly game where most are trying to just frag and others the objective. It’s all down to what that player finds fun at the time. It is a video game after all. If your not having fun why are you playing it? 

[SpiralSentinel]

I appreciate your perspective, RNGesus, and I want to clarify something. I absolutely do have fun playing on the FA servers. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here or have joined the admin apprenticeship.

 

However, I respectfully disagree with the idea that most players simply don't know the objectives. Take Supply Depot, for example. Many of the players on these servers have years of experience and millions of XP. They know how the game works.

 

I've personally witnessed experienced XP server players, including FA members, blatantly ignoring objectives, nearby teammates needing revives, and opportunities to help their team advance.

 

To me, that's disappointing because Enemy Territory was built around teamwork and objectives. Medics, engineers, soldiers, field ops, and covert ops all have roles that contribute to the bigger picture.

 

I understand that everyone has their own idea of fun, and I'm not suggesting we punish people for their playstyle. But I also believe there's a difference between casual gameplay and consistently ignoring the teamwork that makes this game special.

 

Personally, I see that as disrespectful to the spirit of the game and the effort that went into designing it.

 

I'm here because I love ET and want to see it continue thriving. I'll always encourage kindness, respect, teamwork, and positive interactions on the servers. That's the kind of example I want to set as an admin apprentice.

[RNGesus]

29 minutes ago, SpiralSentinel said:

I appreciate your perspective, RNGesus, and I want to clarify something. I absolutely do have fun playing on the FA servers. If I didn't, I wouldn't be here or have joined the admin apprenticeship.

 

However, I respectfully disagree with the idea that most players simply don't know the objectives. Take Supply Depot, for example. Many of the players on these servers have years of experience and millions of XP. They know how the game works.

 

I've personally witnessed experienced XP server players, including FA members, blatantly ignoring objectives, nearby teammates needing revives, and opportunities to help their team advance.

 

To me, that's disappointing because Enemy Territory was built around teamwork and objectives. Medics, engineers, soldiers, field ops, and covert ops all have roles that contribute to the bigger picture.

 

I understand that everyone has their own idea of fun, and I'm not suggesting we punish people for their playstyle. But I also believe there's a difference between casual gameplay and consistently ignoring the teamwork that makes this game special.

 

Personally, I see that as disrespectful to the spirit of the game and the effort that went into designing it.

 

I'm here because I love ET and want to see it continue thriving. I'll always encourage kindness, respect, teamwork, and positive interactions on the servers. That's the kind of example I want to set as an admin apprentice.

I would argue largely that high XP does not mean skill and or skill does not mean high XP. Many players I’ve encountered have niche play styles and get no where near an objective but are effective non the less. I’ve encountered low xp players in the 10-30k range that are absolutely amazing players. Having seen the maps that I will say we rotate on a semi regular basis and knowing what to do are entirely different things I would argue. Such as the map where you seem miniature in a large house I can’t remember the name I could not tell you the objective in it myself I’m ashamed to say but  I have played the map many times over the years mainly on our NQ server or events. I simply just have fun reviving and taking people out in the stairs. I have my fun nothing wrong with that. I say as long as a player is having fun is respectful and not disruptive don’t punish them. Maybe a nice word in team chat hey xyz noticed your good want to help me grab xyz objective ect if not fine if so maybe you thought them something. In the end I say we support a fun less competitive environment it seems to be what the majority of our player base enjoys 

[SpiralSentinel]

I appreciate your perspective, and I actually agree that high XP doesn't necessarily mean high skill. I've encountered plenty of lower-XP players who are excellent teammates.

 

I also agree that everyone should be able to have fun without feeling pressured or punished. That's not what I'm advocating for.

 

My concern is that there's a difference between having your own playstyle and completely disregarding teamwork. You mentioned enjoying reviving teammates and taking out enemies, and that's exactly the kind of contribution I'm talking about. You're still helping your team advance.

 

I've personally witnessed experienced players, including FA members, ignoring objectives, revives, and opportunities to support their teammates. On maps like Supply Depot, where the objectives are well known, I find that particularly frustrating.

 

I enjoy these servers too, and I'm not asking for a highly competitive environment. I simply believe that teamwork, cooperation, and respecting the purpose of the game can make the experience more enjoyable for everyone.

 

I'll continue encouraging objective play respectfully because that's the kind of positive influence I want to bring to the community.

[RASHOMON]

There are a lot of maps in which I'm not sure what the objective is. I know for a fact that I have no idea what the objective on 2tanks is - same goes for Resurrection.

 

But if you want the fragger side of the story, finishing with >100 kills contributes more to the objective than someone with 20% accuracy hopping all over the map throwing knives that may hit one day while "focusing" on obj by mindlessly running towards the tank to die and die again without even touching it. There is a reason why in most cases, the flow of the game i.e the doability of the objective is dictated by the number of fraggers in each team. I always try to balance teams around that and sometimes, I don't join a mildly struggling team that is -2 because the other fragger plays in it. If I join it, there are good chances that the flow of the game changes completely and that the mildly struggling team will turn into a juggernaut. In many cases, I've seen one fragger switch team for whatever reason and the game suddenly feel completely different. 

 

In fine, it means that fraggers (the ones who don't play for obj) contribute indirectly to a team's effort towards the objective. Fraggers don't sit back to farm players. Most of them join the action and the action is often at the objective. If I kill 2 engis and the panzer defending a tank barrier then go for kills somewhere else on the map, I'll have paved the way for the 25% acc player to plant the dynamite even though I haven't planted it myself. So yea, fraggers contribute to the offense and defense merely because of their presence and the pressure they can apply. It is an indirect contribution but a vital one.

Edited Thursday at 08:28 PM by RASHOMON

[ELSO]

1 hour ago, RASHOMON said:

But if you want the fragger side of the story, finishing with >100 kills contributes more to the objective than someone with 20% accuracy hopping all over the map throwing knives that may hit one day while "focusing" on obj by mindlessly running towards the tank to die and die again without even touching it. There is a reason why in most cases, the flow of the game i.e the doability of the objective is dictated by the number of fraggers in each team. I always try to balance teams around that and sometimes, I don't join a mildly struggling team that is -2 because the other fragger plays in it. If I join it, there are good chances that the flow of the game changes completely and that the mildly struggling team will turn into a juggernaut. In many cases, I've seen one fragger switch team for whatever reason and the game suddenly feel completely different. 

 

In fine, it means that fraggers (the ones who don't play for obj) contribute indirectly to a team's effort towards the objective. Fraggers don't sit back to farm players. Most of them join the action and the action is often at the objective. If I kill 2 engis and the panzer defending a tank barrier then go for kills somewhere else on the map, I'll have paved the way for the 25% acc player to plant the dynamite even though I haven't planted it myself. So yea, fraggers contribute to the offense and defense merely because of their presence and the pressure they can apply. It is an indirect contribution but a vital one.

Couldn't agree more. It doesn't include unveiled tho; this guy just camps and frag. 

[SpiralSentinel]

RASHOMON, I appreciate your perspective, and I actually agree with much of what you're saying.

 

A skilled fragger can absolutely make a significant contribution to the team's objective. Eliminating defenders, controlling strategic positions, and creating opportunities for engineers to advance are all valuable forms of teamwork. I would never argue otherwise.

 

However, I think there's an important distinction between fragging that supports the team's progress and simply accumulating kills without regard for what's happening around you.

 

My concern has never been about players needing to personally complete every objective. It's about the overall mentality toward teamwork.

 

Enemy Territory was designed around different classes working together toward a common goal. Whether you're an engineer planting dynamite, a medic reviving teammates, or a skilled fragger clearing the way, you're contributing to that goal.

 

What I struggle to support is the idea that consistently disregarding your team's needs should simply be accepted because someone is having fun.

 

I believe we can maintain a casual, welcoming environment while still encouraging the teamwork that makes ET such a unique game.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not against fraggers. I'm against the absence of teamwork.

[Armagedonyx]

57 minutes ago, SpiralSentinel said:

RASHOMON, I appreciate your perspective, and I actually agree with much of what you're saying.

 

A skilled fragger can absolutely make a significant contribution to the team's objective. Eliminating defenders, controlling strategic positions, and creating opportunities for engineers to advance are all valuable forms of teamwork. I would never argue otherwise.

 

However, I think there's an important distinction between fragging that supports the team's progress and simply accumulating kills without regard for what's happening around you.

 

My concern has never been about players needing to personally complete every objective. It's about the overall mentality toward teamwork.

 

Enemy Territory was designed around different classes working together toward a common goal. Whether you're an engineer planting dynamite, a medic reviving teammates, or a skilled fragger clearing the way, you're contributing to that goal.

 

What I struggle to support is the idea that consistently disregarding your team's needs should simply be accepted because someone is having fun.

 

I believe we can maintain a casual, welcoming environment while still encouraging the teamwork that makes ET such a unique game.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not against fraggers. I'm against the absence of teamwork.

Are there any players that come to your mind who don't contribute enough to the team balance ? We could try asking them to be more objective centered, but I imagine they would just continue playing the way they do. Generally speaking, if you want to play on a server where players are more focused on the objective, I can recommend you every other server than Jay 1 : Silent 1, Beginners 2, NQ 1... for some reason, when I play on one of those (especially Silent 1), people tend to goof less than on the most popular server of the game (also medics are awesome, they heal more often on Silent 1). It could be mod specific and/or the way the other servers are configured. Jay 1 can get spammy, which makes map progression harder for the offensive team, especially during high activity time, which is less the case when there are around 40 players, the best time to play on this server in my honest opinion. 

[SpiralSentinel]

 I appreciate everyone's perspectives and the time you've taken to contribute to this discussion. I understand that everyone has different playstyles, and I respect that.

 

At the end of the day, I simply believe teamwork, camaraderie, and mutual respect are what make Enemy Territory such a great game.

 

I joined FA because I genuinely enjoy ET and want to be a positive part of this community. I'll continue encouraging teamwork, helping others, and treating everyone with kindness and respect.

 

We don't all have to agree, and that's perfectly fine. I appreciate the discussion, and I'll see you all on the battlefield!