Panzer damage - Silent #1

[PHNTM]

On 5/11/2023 at 3:15 PM, daredevil said:

Lets make S1 popular back on Euro times! 

 

S1 has been my favourite FA server for almost 2 years. The player base is objective focused and fairly skilled. Ogeazy and Cross are not only fair and reasonable admins they're also a pleasure to play with and against. There are lots of euro players like myself playing there in the evenings. The S1 community is very solid. Just wish the panzer damage was dialed down a bit  

[daredevil]

4 hours ago, PHNTM said:

Just wish the panzer damage was dialed down a bit

 

Suggest the number.  Open for trying but I don't want to make 'panzer' useless. It's one shot 1 kill weapon.. it's not like anyone with that weapon on an avg. goes up in score board consistently on daily basis. 

[PHNTM]

7 hours ago, daredevil said:

 

Suggest the number.  Open for trying but I don't want to make 'panzer' useless. It's one shot 1 kill weapon.. it's not like anyone with that weapon on an avg. goes up in score board consistently on daily basis. 

 

It's a one shot 20 kill at the moment. The splash damage alone is enough to kill a player with full hp 10 meters away. I don't know the current number but I would suggest just lowering it back to the standard vanilla value - whatever this is. @Cross Marian @ogeazywhat are your views on this?

[Cross Marian]

10 hours ago, Valk said:

Is there a way S1 can have the PPSh weapon enabled to be picked up, replacing the other two SMG's.

This feature is available on Beg2 for all weapons.

 

But I’m not for having it on S1, which is a bit more « serious » oriented. Same reason we don’t have auto adrenaline or double-jump. S1 is not as serious oriented as HC of course but more serious than Beg2.

 

Also, PPSH is already available for engineer, soldier and field ops. And since we already have some monster players on the server I’m afraid to see them if they start playing Rambo medic with PPSH.

 

4 hours ago, PHNTM said:

It's a one shot 20 kill at the moment. The splash damage alone is enough to kill a player with full hp 10 meters away. I don't know the current number but I would suggest just lowering it back to the standard vanilla value - whatever this is. @Cross Marian @ogeazywhat are your views on this?

Just to be sure are you talking about the panzer on Silent1 or HC? 
 

Because I thought splash damages on S1 were already a bit nerfed compared to HC. 
That’s why it’s a lot easier to one shot someone on HC with Rnades for example.

 

For panzer damages, it’s a bit hard. On one hand, I see where you’re coming from, like every player, I get annoyed being killed twice in a row by the panzer guy.

On the other hand, S1 has short respawn times. So sometimes, having a triple kills with panzer, is the only way to get through to the objective for attacking team.

 

So if we are talking about just reducing panzer splash damages alone, overall I would be against it. 

[daredevil]

Cross Marian has made excellent points. Also sharing numbers so all are on same page. 

 

9:44:27 AM:> g_dmgPanzer
------------------------
"g_dmgPanzer" is: "400", the default


9:45:27 AM:> g_dmgPanzerRadius
------------------------------
"g_dmgPanzerRadius" is: "300", the default

 

Also soldiers get lowest recharge time from all classes. 

 

set g_medicChargeTime "38000"
set g_medicSelfhealTime "0" //"6000"
set g_soldierChargeTime "24000"

 

My suggestion is can we tweak spawn timer for some maps depending on player count? Thanks. 

[daredevil]

I separated out topic from HC thread so it can be tracked independently.  Thanks. 

 

 

[ogeazy]

Hi DD & CrMa, 

 

So if I understand correctly, the panzer damage is either a direct hit or splash damage and there isn't a gradient to splash? You're either hit by it or not? 

 

As for the charge, I have mixed feelings because while the panzer does seem to recharge way too quickly, it can feel like forever if you're playing mortar. Are all the soldier charge bars treated equally? 

[Cross Marian]

3 hours ago, ogeazy said:

So if I understand correctly, the panzer damage is either a direct hit or splash damage and there isn't a gradient to splash? You're either hit by it or not?

There is a gradient system in the radius. Otherwise, with a 300 damages hit, you would never survive it. But in game, if you're far enough, you can take some damages but not necessarily die.

But the gradient system to splash damages is not progressive I think, it's decided by fixed zones.

 

I seem to remember there are actually 3 zones around a panzer hit:

> Red zone (nearest to the center) where you're dead no matter what.

> Orange zone, where you still take a lot of damages but you have a chance to survive if you're full on HP (and preferably a medic),

> Yellow zone (furthest from the center) where you still take some damages but you probably won't die.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, daredevil said:

My suggestion is can we tweak spawn timer for some maps depending on player count? Thanks. 

 

How does the player count works? Does it count all players on the server (including the Spectators) or can it take into account only the players in Allies and Axis?

That's an important distinction.

 

But I fully agree with that, tweaking the spawn timer would be more helpful than trying to modify the weapons features 👍

 

I believe on large maps, the spawn timer is manageable. The problem is more on the smaller/medium maps where it's really hard sometimes when a defensive team spawns too quickly near the obj.

 

My point of view on the matter is that, if you have time, we can discuss about the maps, number of players, spawn times, etc. But it might be a bit time consuming.

What I would suggest, if we want to take a shortcut , is to raise a little bit ALL the spawn times.  I suggest that we take all the current spawn times, and we add an additional 4 seconds on all of them.

That would take us a bit closer to what spawn times are on HC.

 

Maybe see if that helps before trying to tweak each timer individually.

 

That being said, if we want to update spawn times by map, here is a couple of maps that would benefit the most of higher spawn times imo:

> Beerrun

> FA School

> Erdenberg

> Aldernest

> ETL Supply

> FA Bremen

 

[daredevil]

4 hours ago, ogeazy said:

Hi DD & CrMa, 

 

So if I understand correctly, the panzer damage is either a direct hit or splash damage and there isn't a gradient to splash? You're either hit by it or not? 

 

As for the charge, I have mixed feelings because while the panzer does seem to recharge way too quickly, it can feel like forever if you're playing mortar. Are all the soldier charge bars treated equally? 

 

Their are few things:

 

g_panzersVulnerable - Which is set to 1 on our server. Details: https://mygamingtalk.com/wiki/Silent_Mod_Server_Cvar

 

We can try this one: https://mygamingtalk.com/wiki/Silent_Mod_Server_Cvar#g_maxPanzerSuicides

 

But it didn't work out well in past. 

[Blunt]

If only for a little while, please turn this on "result in a panzer shooting medpacks".   That would crack me up. 

Is there any appetite to turn on g_panzersGravity?

[daredevil]

9 minutes ago, Cross Marian said:

What I would suggest, if we want to take a shortcut , is to raise a little bit ALL the spawn times.  I suggest that we take all the current spawn times, and we add an additional 4 seconds on all of them.

 

 

I am hesitant on this approach. It will cause issues i.e. if players have to hunt other players to kill, they will end up leaving server. I opt for time consuming approach - we do it once, but we do it right and then tweak from their. 

[Cross Marian]

1 hour ago, daredevil said:

I am hesitant on this approach. It will cause issues i.e. if players have to hunt other players to kill, they will end up leaving server. I opt for time consuming approach - we do it once, but we do it right and then tweak from their. 

Yes, makes sense too.

 

Ok then, how do you suggest we proceed?

Do you want to share the current maps spawn times here? it will be easier for people to picture things with the real numbers

 

 

Off the top of my head, here are a few places where maps get stuck the most and my suggestions:

 

Map: Beerrun

This map is a giant bottleneck, but the real problem is the first Axis flag that allies have to capture.

My suggestion: if the player count is 6 vs 6 or higher (or maybe 7v7), Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Map: Gold Rush

Issue: When the bank is open, last Axis spawn. Axis win this map 9 times out of 10.

My suggestion: if the player count is 7 vs 7 or higher, Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Map: FA School

Issue: second Axis spawn

My suggestion: if the player count is 8 vs 8 or higher, Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Little side note for people reading this and who want to suggest modifications:

Please, keep in mind that the goal is not to make every map an easy win for the attacking team. Some maps are a bit harder for one team by design, and that's ok.

The goal here is to identify the real choke-points that can currently ruin a map progression.

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Cross Marian

[daredevil]

15 minutes ago, Blunt said:

Is there any appetite to turn on g_panzersGravity?

 

We did in past.. folks got grumpy....  Also keep in mind - their is 1 panzer on server vs many medics, engineers, field ops, etc..  At the end of the day, we need to walk thin line i.e. keep weapon and soldier class useful. 

 

If you ask me, flamer is mostly useless on silent1 or that's my opinion. I tried using it last week, got dead within sec's... and flame is good for cleaning up campers in rooms.. i wasn't able to do much difference vs on jaymod with adren, where I was able to push through.

 

The way, we used to play in past, is panzer and flamers - takes out campers, mortar handles players going to obj... and then medics and fieldops help Engineers to push through. You really have to camp her with MG as well... but overall, I was able to score more on Engineer or medics.

 

Now when I play BF5 OR COD Warzone 2, I find other classes more useful. 

 

Whatever we do, my suggestion is don't make panzer useless. Walk the thin line without breaking the ice. 

 

[Orfendeus]

18 minutes ago, Cross Marian said:

Yes, makes sense too.

 

Ok then, how do you suggest we proceed?

Do you want to share the current maps spawn times here? it will be easier for people to picture things with the real numbers

 

 

Off the top of my head, here are a few places where maps get stuck the most and my suggestions:

 

Map: Beerrun

This map is a giant bottleneck, but the real problem is the first Axis flag that allies have to capture.

My suggestion: if the player count is 6 vs 6 or higher (or maybe 7v7), Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Map: Gold Rush

Issue: When the bank is open, last Axis spawn. Axis win this map 9 times out of 10.

My suggestion: if the player count is 7 vs 7 or higher, Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Map: FA School

Issue: second Axis spawn

My suggestion: if the player count is 8 vs 8 or higher, Axis spawn time should be increased.

 

Little side note for people reading this and who want to suggest modifications:

Please, keep in mind that the goal is not to make every map an easy win for the attacking team. Some maps are a bit harder for one team by design, and that's ok.

The goal here is to identify the real choke-points that can currently ruin a map progression.

 

hello admins 😄

 

there are a lot of maps when allies get stuck, but it's not the spawn time the problem on these maps , it's just the people playing who are not dedicated to winning, just having fun.

i know on s1 the spawn times its a little low(idk exactly the times spawn on some maps but i can say 7 seconds?), in my opinion the panzer its ok, there is a people who cant use panzer correctly, just use for fun, and its not a problem, on the other side, maybe the arty its so op on s1, maps like italy its hard to win with good arty players and its really big, imagine in gold rush xd

 

you could also use jay1's rule of every few maps stop using panzer, there are many who use it(me too) but I have seen people who use it for hours at a time.

[daredevil]

22 minutes ago, Cross Marian said:

Ok then, how do you suggest we proceed?

 

 

In order to solve the issue, my thoughts below:

 

1. Restrict panzer based on player count. We can control quickly based on overall count while loading the map. Then if required we can do based on 'active' player count. We added custom option on Jaymod and probably back port to silent 1. 

2. I feel it's more of 4 vs 4 playing, I keep getting killed by panzer - it might be annoying. If 12 vs 12 - someone might kill the panzer guy and it's less annoying.  So in this case #1 helps. 

3. We shouldn't mix fixing map specific issue vs panzer killing issue but I am onboard fixing map spawn times to make more pleasant. 

4. One thing, we can try is lower panzer damage radius. It's on default. We can make it bit less, so panzer user needs to be little more accurate. -- This change needs to be done live, so we can introduce custom command. What we can do is when you are on server, you can change and get live feedback or monitor but each map, I will reset. So in case if you forget, it will auto reset, till you confirm the number which everyone likes. 

5. For map issue: We can try to back port Jaymod mapping stats i.e. for Each map, it tells us, who won and kills by team. So you will have rough estimate, if team lost why they lost. That will help to fix granular map spawn times. 

 

At the end of the day, no matter what we do - someone is going to complain because they got killed by panzer 10 times during their 5 hr game play. In that case, I just ignore because not much can be done as it's just player not able to take his death!  And at that point, they just call us assholes for not doing anything but in reality they are just being bitch. That's our life