ET SILENT #1 Anyone know how KR works in Silent server?

[MaTt0]

I'm looking for an in depth break down of how the KR works in the silent server.

 

I understand it isn't a fool proof way of identifying someone's skill or really matters at all. I'm more a less curious how it works. 

 

I understand that if a lower KR kills a higher KR, the lower should go up, and the higher should drop down. 

 

But I've noticed even when I kill people above my KR, it doesn't go up.

 

I'm curious how some players ranging from 3-5KR maintain that without killing players above their KR.

 

If a 3-5KR player gets killed by 1KR players and their K/D is negative multiple matches in a row, how doesn't it decrease?

 

How does it all work? Does it matter what class you are? Does it matter what team you are on? etc..

 

Tried to word this without sounding arrogant, I just get curious on algorithm stuff. 

 

Thank you! ❤️ 

 

 

[Cross Marian]

From what I understand, there are 3 factors impacting KR:

 

1. The KR of the player who killed and the KR of the player who was killed.

2. The distance between the player who killed and the player who was killed.

3. The average distance between the 2 players
 

 

So a noob killing with a knife a top player will see a big positive impact on his KR.

While a top player killing a noob with a mortar will have a very little impact on his KR.

Not sure I understand the third factor though.

 

Now, of course that’s an average value of a player. So if the player has been playing on the server for a long time (and has never reseted his stats), he won’t see his KR moving a lot.

However, if a player resets his stats, then he will be able to easily see his KR adjusting. And the longer he plays, the closer his KR will be to his playstyle, and therefore it will move less and less.

 

13 hours ago, MaTt0 said:

I'm curious how some players ranging from 3-5KR maintain that without killing players above their KR

From experience, on silent1, the players with a 4+ KR usually spend a good amount of time playing field ops. Also, in some cases, I’ve seen them killing bots for an entire map during the server empty hours.

 

But even with a 4 KR, you can still increase by killing lower players. You just have to kill a lot of them and die very few times

 

13 hours ago, MaTt0 said:

How does it all work? Does it matter what class you are? Does it matter what team you are on? etc..

The weapon has an indirect impact on your KR. Indirect because what is important is the distance.

Mortar usually kills from further away, Knife kills in close range, etc. So the weapon impacts the distance of killing which impacts the KR.

 

The class or the team has no impact. Might have some influence for PRW, but that’s an other debate 😅

Edited September 26, 2022 by Cross Marian

[dju]

[MaTt0]

18 hours ago, Cross Marian said:

From what I understand, there are 3 factors impacting KR:

 

1. The KR of the player who killed and the KR of the player who was killed.

2. The distance between the player who killed and the player who was killed.

3. The average distance between the 2 players
 

 

So a noob killing with a knife a top player will see a big positive impact on his KR.

While a top player killing a noob with a mortar will have a very little impact on his KR.

Not sure I understand the third factor though.

 

Now, of course that’s an average value of a player. So if the player has been playing on the server for a long time (and has never reseted his stats), he won’t see his KR moving a lot.

However, if a player resets his stats, then he will be able to easily see his KR adjusting. And the longer he plays, the closer his KR will be to his playstyle, and therefore it will move less and less.

 

From experience, on silent1, the players with a 4+ KR usually spend a good amount of time playing field ops. Also, in some cases, I’ve seen them killing bots for an entire map during the server empty hours.

 

But even with a 4 KR, you can still increase by killing lower players. You just have to kill a lot of them and die very few times

 

The weapon has an indirect impact on your KR. Indirect because what is important is the distance.

Mortar usually kills from further away, Knife kills in close range, etc. So the weapon impacts the distance of killing which impacts the KR.

 

The class or the team has no impact. Might have some influence for PRW, but that’s an other debate 😅

OUTSTANDING!

Thank you much for this. This is exactly what I was looking for! I appreciate you Cross!

[Cross Marian]

11 hours ago, MaTt0 said:

OUTSTANDING!

Thank you much for this. This is exactly what I was looking for! I appreciate you Cross!

 

[Tukkonen]

lil offtopic, but how does PRW work on silent servers too? 😄 From what i have figured out, it has something to do about objectives, and attacking. But sometimes victory gives 0 points, and sometimes 0.040 or so. Winning while defender is even more confusing with PRW.

[Betinho]

 

[Cross Marian]

4 hours ago, Tukkonen said:

lil offtopic, but how does PRW work on silent servers too? 😄 From what i have figured out, it has something to do about objectives, and attacking. But sometimes victory gives 0 points, and sometimes 0.040 or so. Winning while defender is even more confusing with PRW.

 

PRW (Player Rated Wins) is an indicator that takes into accounts mainly two things:

> The number of times a player's team has won.

> The playtime of the player in each team during a map.

 

Basically, if you spend an entire map in Axis, and at the end, the Axis win, then your PRW should improve. If Axis lost that map, your PRW should get lower.

And to make it fair, the ratio factors in the playtime to nuance the result (in case the player has spent 10min in Allies, then 5min in Spectator, then 5min in Axis). But I don't know the exact algorithm behind it.

 

KR is based solely on the player's performance, while PRW depends on your team's results.

It's less relevant considering that teams usually change a lot during a map.

 

[Vindstot]

9 hours ago, Cross Marian said:

It's less relevant considering that teams usually change a lot during a map.

In a few cases it can be an important factor

eg with few players when the teams dont change too much and in one team there are a few good players with high kr (assuming noone tries to artificially pump their kr numbers up) (and they dont care about obj), and the other team having high prw, but they have otherwise less skilled players in them, then the less skilled team can absolutely dominate the obj, while by kills and kr the teams can look fair.

While J3 doesnt have either kr or prw, I see this sometimes happening there, I assume this can also be true on the silent servers

With more players and more changing teams, the prw seems to be a less important factor

[Cross Marian]

That’s a lot of IFs 😄

 

Like you said, NQ and Jaymod don’t have that feature. But from my experience on Silent mod, it’s not really useful.

 

1 hour ago, Vindstot said:

eg with few players when the teams dont change too much and in one team there are a few good players with high kr (assuming noone tries to artificially pump their kr numbers up) (and they dont care about obj), and the other team having high prw, but they have otherwise less skilled players in them, then the less skilled team can absolutely dominate the obj, while by kills and kr the teams can look fair.

 

I don’t think I fully agree there. Let’s take an example with the variables you mentioned:

> You are playing a random map on 5 vs 5.

> You have the top 3 KR players in Axis and they are really good (not fake boosted KR).

> Players in Allies have average KR but they are more obj focused (higher PRW).

 

In these conditions, even if the top KR players don’t really care about obj, since there aren’t many players in the server, what will they do? They will hunt the only few players that are online (obj oriented but less skilled). And most of the times, they will have them pinned down. Making it impossible for them to progress in obj because they just die all the time.

This can easily happen because less players on the server makes the already strong KR players even stronger. On the opposite, when more players are online, strong KR players can be put in check with sheer number. Or they will die more often because there is simply more danger with more players.

 

So, the times where PRW is more practical than KR are so rare that overall, if we have to choose between the two, it’s better to balance teams based on KR (or skill level if you know who are the top players).

[Vindstot]

13 minutes ago, Cross Marian said:

So, the times where PRW is more practical than KR are so rare that overall, if we have to choose between the two, it’s better to balance teams based on KR

Yes, I totally agree with that. PRW would be useful so few times, it is almost not worth considering at all

And while obj is important, if half the players cant get out of the spawn, but the other can complete the obj, those dominated players will quit with higher likelyhood

 

 

14 minutes ago, Cross Marian said:

I don’t think I fully agree there. Let’s take an example with the variables you mentioned:

> You are playing a random map on 5 vs 5.

> You have the top 3 KR players in Axis and they are really good (not fake boosted KR).

> Players in Allies have average KR but they are more obj focused (higher PRW).

Id rather give this example

 - Lets go with the 5 v 5

 - Noone leaves or joins any team, and everyone plays from start to end

 - KR shows the real skill level of the players

 - Defending team has KR something like this 3.5 3.5 0.5 0.5 0.5

 - Offensive team: 2 2 2 1.5 1.5

(Since I am not familiar enough with KR to know what is a good value, and how good or bad a value is (I know default is 0.5), I will just simply assume: )

 - In the defending team the 2 players with 3.5 KRs almost never do obj, the 3 players with 0.5 KRs always focus on obj

(I might be wrong about this, but this is what I noticed, players who care more about obj have usually lower KR, on average (eg you repair the truck, and get backstabbed while doing it)

 - In the offensive team the 3 players with the KR 2s are not doing the objective, and the 2 players with the 1.5 KRs try to complete the obj

 - There is more than one way to complete the obj

 

If these were the conditions of a match, it could happen that the KR (and in this case the skill level) is equal on average. The team with the better few players dont care about the obj, and this team loses the obj

For example on the map Sea Wall Battery the 2 3.5KR players are near the flag and defend against the 3 2KR players, while the 3 0.5KR players are camping in the final obj room, and the 2 1.5KR players choose the alternative way, and never even see the 2 good players from the other team, and have easy time for the 2 1.5KR players to kill the 3 0.5KR players near the control room, while the other 5 players only fight near the flag

Or also on Oasis the 5 best players fight near the destroyed old city wall, while the other 5 go to the obj

Or on Marrakech the obj is sneaked out on also the alternative path

On Italy the 5 best players can fight near the CP, while the 5 worst players do the obj

Radar also, Caen, Beach, Braundorf

 

While it couldnt happen with more straightforward map, like Special Delivery, Supply, School, Snatch, Baserace, Adlernest

 

37 minutes ago, Cross Marian said:

on Silent mod, it’s not really useful.

But I totally agree with this, as what I say would need too many ifs to happen that its not likely to happen, so yeah, PRW imo is not very useful 😛

[yaku]

https://mygamingtalk.com/forums/topic/3118-what-is-kr-and-prw/