et server suggestion Spawntime (jay1)

[sepulchre]

Hello,

 

I made my first suggestion in this thread and said that I will talk about the second one in a seperate thread. Here it is.

So, besides bots, there is another big thing which bothers me a lot on the jay1 server. And I mean A LOT.

 

Spawntime.

I mean the spawntime is just ridiculously that low, that it feels like every second people respawn again.

I think usually the spawntime for both sides are between 8 seconds and 15 seconds. Correct me if I am wrong (I didn't make a log about the spawntimes you run on your jay1 server).

Let us put it in perspective, the standard spawntime is 20 seconds for attacking team and 30 seconds for defending. So this is a huge difference compared to your spawntimes.

 

The problem is, that your jay1 server is very popular, so it is most of the time full or near full. What does it mean?

That means it is impossible to play an organized game. Always something is happening and always it is a mess. As said in the other thread, it is a "killing festival", there is no space, always something is going on. Impossible to play obj oriented because 1 side is overwhelmingly dominating (because of the mass of people which is a result of the low spawntime).

 

From my observations, the low spawntime already decides which side will win the map (not talking about exceptions).

So if Allies is attacking and Axis is defending, who will win the map? I tell you. If the server is full, team Axis will very likely win, if the server is just half full (approx.) team Allies will win.

 

Why? Because of the spawntime. When the server is full, and we have sth. like 8 seconds of respawning, it means like 20-25 people are always around. No matter if you kill bunch of Axis guys. In a second they are back. But if you kill Allies guys, it takes some time till they get from their spawn to the obj area. But until they come, Axis respawned already and because they are closer to the obj, literally you can't wipe them out from that area ever. So for the whole map Axis will dominate because they respawn quicker than you can kill that much.

 

And when the server is not that full, half full, or less than that or a bit more than that, then the spawntime works for Allies. Because this time there are not a mass of people in the Axis side. So Allies can rush for obj, die, and come back very quickly. But there are not enough Axis players, so Allies can easily rush the whole time because they respawn very quickly. So they dominate the whole map.

 

All these things can also be said, when Axis is the attacking team and Allies the defending.

 

So the low spawntime hurts the game a lot. It makes the game quickly uneven. 1 side dominates very easily because of the quick respawning. When the server is not that full, as defending team, you can't resist much longer to the attacking team because they frigging respawn all the time. And when the server is nearly full or full, no way the attacking team can get through.

 

I play mostly as an Engineer, and it is already very hard to play this class because mostly you have no help. But the low spawntime makes it almost impossible to play for obj. If I am in the attacking team and the server is full, like an hour ago in Supply Depot, no way I can get through. I MUST go through the area where Axis spawns. But they respawn like every 8 seconds, so literally everytime when I rush to the obj, people are respawning and I am immedietly dead. Before the Supply Depot, we played Oasis. Hmm. What can I say. Thanks to my Allies colleagues, who were afraid to leave the tunnels, it was impossible to get to the guns. I couldn't get once through the tunnels.

Or when we play Goldrush and the server is not that full and this time I am Axis, no way we can defend that much as Axis, because we can only resist to 3-4 waves in the bank area. After that we die and Allies respawn that quickly that they get the gold very easily.

 

So I suggest to increase the spawntime. Of course it depends on the map and which side is attacking and defending, so I can't give you any numbers. Just increase it, so the gameplay gets even.

 

PS: By the way, I am not a bad player. I am one of the good ones I can say, top 3-5 for sure mostly on jay1 when I play and when not full (given damage, k/d ratio (I don't count mortar/fops/panzer spammers)). I can get more better, if I camped and just tried to kill people instead of playing for obj, but I always try to play for obj and revive people even when I see there is no chance I can survive that. I just mention this, because I don't want that you think I am a bad player and blame the spawntime. Long time ago I was a med (-) etpro player, now like low (+), so my low + is actually above the average on your jay1.

[Aniky]

Spawntimes were fixed accordingly to various of speccing throught the months of gameplay from our leaders and members to fit the perfect or nearly perfect spawntimes that both axis and allies have on certain maps. Each map has been adjusted accordingly if there was a report about uneven teams considering the main problem was only spawntime. Jaymod is different than ETpro is, as it doesn't punish u for fooling around or getting full and such. It's meant to be fun gaming and not being on serious level as ETpro is when u get a full spawntime and u can lose a map beacuse of that.

Jaymod has always been a fun mode where ppl tend to come only to have fun and enjoy playing the game, without waiting up to 30 seconds to respawn and mainly because they would do some silly mistake that most of ppl don't tend to do on ETPro. Defending team will normally always have higher respawn time so attacking team can adjust their attacks to that and if lucky, manages to win the map by some luck or good individual players in that team. Obviously when the teams are higher than casual games, lets say 20vs20, it comes down to how attacking team is even doing their job properly, normally when i play, i don't see allies for instance struggling a lot and couple of maps ends up with rushing, meaning that the obj was done already in the first 5 min of the map, while axis were compeletly unable to defend it.

Even nowadays that is still the case, that at certain maps attacking team will completely dominate the defending team and even if the numbers re even, it often comes down to which team have better individual players who can make bigger difference when it comes to proceeding to obj. If u have in attacking team two very good fraggers, they can do most of the dirty job as being called rambo medics, but they dirty work often helps engis in order to make their jobs easier, since medics can easily wipe out the defence defending the obj, so even then, axis team is in disadvantage regardless of having "defending" position.

 

Sadly we can't please everyone who plays on our servers with spawntimes or different settings, but the way spawntimes were set, was to enable both teams having fair chances of defending and attacking on every map, without giving one team too big of and edge. If that wasn't the case, the spawntimes wouldn't be as they are until now and would be changed already long time ago to make it more even for either of the teams. U will simply have to get used to it and play a bit differently, as at the end, jaymod is different than ETpro is, u need a competely different play style and different game sense than u have at etpro. If u play engi, u need to realize u are not alone at that job, there's at least 3-5 engies helping u and most of the times they dont have too much of an issue getting some objs done, hell, sometimes they do it too fast and it ends up being map rushed, so all in all, the spawntimes are as fine as they are on this point.

[sepulchre]

I know that you can't please everyone and I totally get that Jaymod is meant to be a fun mod, but I can't agree with you what you say about "perfect spawntimes".

 

Specially this part:

 

 

lets say 20vs20, it comes down to how attacking team is even doing their job properly, normally when i play,

 

When it is 20vs20++, it doesn't matter how attacking team is doing. It already turned to a spam feast, mortars, panzers, artys everywhere + low spawntime for defending team. No way there is a fair chance for the attacking team. I don't know how you get to the conclusion that the spawntimes are fair. Everytime when I am in the attacking team, and the server is nearly full, we lose the map. Or we win, when I am in the defending team. And not by "bad luck or the other team has better individual players", you just can't get through the last instance because every second someone is respawning. You die, until you come back, defending team already spawned 2 times. The mass of people dictates the game, not skill, not gameplay, not individual players. Just simple and plain spamming.

 

I don't expect to change the regular spawntimings from 8 to 30. That would be too much for a fun server, I agree. But that low is just causing a spamming.

 

If you can run statistics, I assume you could check what I am talking about. So if you could make a statistics each day about which side wins a map and how many players online at that time. I am totally sure that the graph will show you that the defending teams dominates each map when the server is (nearly) full, and it is other way around when the server is half full.

 

And there is no problem with my gaming style. I can easily adjust it, so I can camp all the time, be the silly sniper without any contribution to the team just for the sake of having fun, but actually I play always for the obj and I love to rush. That's the purpose of the game in my opinion and this purpose is not given when the spawntime is that low, because it takes out strategy and turns the game into a clash of masses.

 

But I respect your decision, I'll live with what it is.

Edited August 4, 2015 by sepulchre

[Aniky]

I know that you can't please everyone and I totally get that Jaymod is meant to be a fun mod, but I can't agree with you what you say about "perfect spawntimes".

 

Specially this part:

 

 

When it is 20vs20++, it doesn't matter how attacking team is doing. It already turned to a spam feast, mortars, panzers, artys everywhere + low spawntime for defending team. No way there is a fair chance for the attacking team. I don't know how you get to the conclusion that the spawntimes are fair. Everytime when I am in the attacking team, and the server is nearly full, we lose the map. Or we win, when I am in the defending team. And not by "bad luck or the other team has better individual players", you just can't get through the last instance because every second someone is respawning. You die, until you come back, defending team already spawned 2 times. The mass of people dictates the game, not skill, not gameplay, not individual players. Just simple and plain spamming.

 

I don't expect to change the regular spawntimings from 8 to 30. That would be too much for a fun server, I agree. But that low is just causing a spamming.

 

If you can run statistics, I assume you could check what I am talking about. So if you could make a statistics each day about which side wins a map and how many players online at that time. I am totally sure that the graph will show you that the defending teams dominates each map when the server is (nearly) full, and it is other way around when the server is half full.

 

And there is no problem with my gaming style. I can easily adjust it, so I can camp all the time, be the silly sniper without any contribution to the team just for the sake of having fun, but actually I play always for the obj and I love to rush. That's the purpose of the game in my opinion and this purpose is not given when the spawntime is that low, because it takes out strategy and turns the game into a clash of masses.

 

But I respect your decision, I'll live with what it is.

 

Obviously at FA1, it is harder, since the heavy weapon have such a big impact at game as well as all the spam ability the defending team have, considering FA2, where adre is present, it makes it a tad easier for attacking team to breach certain points of map, than going without any extra "juice" into a battle of 5 enemies. That being said, it does happen on regular basis that even regardless of server being full attacking team finds themself victorius, obviously there are certain factors and well, one of them is also to individual players. Spawntimes re adjusted to the point that attacking team still have an edge at spawning, considering if they know how to set a proper attack, they can easily wipe out certain amount of axis that respawned and giving them an edge at attacking the obj, ofcourse on the other side, not every map is succesful for them, otherwise attacking team would always be victorious.

I agree upon the low spawntime and high players in team, that it leads to spam in most of the time, but that's how jaymod is and has always been in a way, when the server goes over 40 players, it tends to get into spam and attacking team simply have to overcome certain parts of map to achive some better ground in prior of actually having any chances of winning. It can be done, it is being done on regular daily basis, so it is not impossible.

 

Probably if we ran statistics we would end up that defending team has greater chances of winning the map by not allowing attacking team to complete the objective, but that doesn't put it into the unfair category of playing, it simply means that attacking team has to attack better in order to achive wins. If they can do it in certain ocassions even when the server is full, then it's obviously indicator that it can be done oftenly as well. I didn't say that we have perfect spawntimes, i simply said that we tried to get it close to perfect, so it fits to both attacking and defending team, even if defending team is having greater amount of chances per map to win it.

 

Regardless of not having greater amount of preferences over the silent server, u can test Hardcore server (216.155.146.19:27960) which have a bit longer spawntimes and a lower scale of players (29), maybe that would suit u better?

[sepulchre]

Yeah, the adrenaline thing is like you say. I don't like adrenaline but I don't understand why it is not available on the jay1 server. I mean shotguns are enabled, you have those knives you can throw and take out anybody, and the server is very populated but no adren. Interesting choice.

 

Yes, it does happen that the attacking team wins regardless of server being full. Just I see it as exceptions.

Like some minutes ago we played Warbell and I was Allies, so defending. That map takes long usually. So, the whole time Axis could't deliver the book, can't even get near the Bell or the sacrifice room. In the last 5 minute they managed to deliver the book. But the whole time they couldn't get even near the bell. But then 3 minutes before the end somehow they repaired it (I left the area of bell because it was boring because nobody came). I assume other people thought the same and left the place either, so the place wasn't protected like it was all the time. And then of course they sacrificed and won the map. And it was like 23vs23 the whole time. So, yes, the attacking team won and the server was full. You can say "there you have your example". But it doesn't change the fact that the whole 20 minutes or so Axis couldn't get even near the bell because they were dominated. Yes, at the end Axis won but the whole time it was an unbalanced 1-sided map.

After that we played Fuel Depot. So Axis was defending. I quit caring for stats and so on, and just tried to capture the flag as medic, no kills, just double jumping to their spawn. I tried that like 30 times and without exaggerations, only 3-4 times I could land in their flag area without them respawning. It was really like a joke. I died, respawned, did jumped to their spawn, and every time they respawned exactly when I was jumping there. So of course no chance capturing. Of course I changed my routine but always I landed in fron of respawning guys. And how did the map go? 50 seconds before the map ended, finally we captured the flag and somehow we got 5 minutes extra time. I went as engie but of course it was not possible to go through all the enemies. We lost.

 

Yeah, so just giving examples. Most of the players don't know how to play the game or play selfish. So there is no teamplay at all. It is just a matter of luck when the server is full to win as attacking team. That could be more balanced if the spawntiming would be increased. Anyway, just stating my point of view.

 

And thx for adressing me the silent server. I played there, too and I really like the overall setup but I don't like this new Mod (I know Jaymod from my old days but the Silent mod must be a newer thing). It feels or it is like that the rifle nade has a lot less power than usually if I am not wrong on a silent server, correct? I don't know but that mod feels totally strange and Jaymod is a lot better. But mainly I prefer the "visitors" aka players in the jay1 server, I like those bunch of people.

Edited August 4, 2015 by sepulchre

[tipsy]

Jay1 is perfect for its regulars, no matter what argument a complainer bring except for maps, there is always other server available with different settings to play on. 

 

whatever pisses you on jay1, it makes it popular, lol.

[SunLight]

whatever pisses you on jay1, it makes it popular, lol.

this

 

It's impossible to please everyone.

(but sometimes people keep playing in a server even if they don't like it 100%. Out of habit, laziness/boredom, because their friends play there, and other reasons)

[sepulchre]

Well, there are a lot of reasons why a server is popular. Reducing those reasons to only the spawntime is not right in my opinion.

 

But I agree, the low spawntime makes it popular. Because dying is not sentenced as told by Aniky. You die and immediately you are up again.

So no waiting time, and people hate to wait, that it is why it makes it popular because you don't wait.

 

Just when there is almost no spawntime it is a problem (and don't forget when you respawn that you are protected for some seconds, so actually a respawning of 8 seconds is like 5 seconds because you can't get killed for 3 seconds or so). I explained above why the low spawntime hurts the gameplay.

 

Of course, I could just go Rambo, and be a camper, then there is not a problem. But if you think your server should care for obj, then you should in my opinion increase the spawntime a little bit, just to avoid the spam a little bit.

Edited August 4, 2015 by sepulchre

[SunLight]

Well, there are a lot of reasons why a server is popular. Reducing those reasons to only the spawntime is not right in my opinion.

Obviously. But it's the whole set of features. And as I said before, many regulars don't necessarily like all of them, and this is a truth. You, for example, don't seem to like low spawntimes

 

In the past I hated all mods except etpro, I hated servers with too many players in them (even etpro ones, mabye someone oldschool might remember [gmc] todeszone - 20vs20? ...no thanks), I hated servers with players under low-, because I couldn't improve my playing there, I hated jaymod a.k.a. unhitmod and maybe also etpub, I hated fast shooting, I hated lag and players with low maxpackets, I hated double jump, I hated g_speed higher than the standard one (which was also very uncommon at the time - like, this game fkin warps as hell already, and you fkin increase g_speed over the default?), etc.etc.etc.

 

And guess what? Now I've played more years of jaymod than etpro in servers with all those features I hated. Because, you know, all the players you know play there, it's fun and blablabla, we are creatures of habit, whatever reason.

 

So no waiting time, and people hate to wait, that it is why it makes it popular because you don't wait.

It doesn't take much brain to look at that little number, and play more aggressive when it's low and more carefully and defensive when it's high. And then nobody would have to 'wait'.

 

Years ago (I admit I didn't play in all servers around, so I might be wrong) almost all servers had 20/30 and nobody complained. I don't even know where all this love for low spawntimes comes from.

 

I guess it all came from splatterladder rating, but I might be wrong. Players playing for rating wanted to kill more noobs more often, and so some servers opted for a low spawn, and all the raters moved there, making them successful, so others jumped on the bandwagon.

 

But if you don't like it, play in silent mod or etpro. Jay1 was never a server meant for objective playing (in my humble opinion). There is Hardcore server. Or if you want to play for the objectives for real (but still in a 'fun' way), there is etpro gamenight every Friday, you might want to check it out.

[hobbit]

All objectives are easily doable with the current spawntimes anyway, you just need to use your brain and not just rely on aim or randomly running in trying to capture flag/gold/etc. The only reason why axis tend to win more maps is because plenty of raters will only play defense for their easy frags while worse players end up getting stuck attacking. Spawntime has almost nothing to do with how easy or hard it is to win a map on jaymod.