School's armed guard accidentally leaves handgun in the bathroom

[Chameleon]

Mistakes happen. With no guns, then next someone cries that some irresponsible worker left their cutter on a box while stocking shelves at a store and a child took it.

 

We have to stop blaming guns and REALIZE THAT IT'S THE PARENTS JOB TO RAISE THEIR CHILDREN, and TEACH VALUES, and MORALS.

 

With these arguments, screw it all, lets lock ourselves in padded rooms. There has to be a change AT HOME.

 

The NRA may have been an advocate for armed guards in schools, great.

 

The NRA didn't choose this particular guard. Not every gun owner is irresponsible.

 

People always miss the point, and blame the gun. It's the owners actions, not the firearm. Try lobbying to remove firearms from criminals first. Try offering incentives to gun owners to purchase safes and locking gun cabinets. Try offering incentives to take safe firearm handling courses.

 

But no, lets just be ignorant and blame the guns.

 

OMG IT HAS A PISTOL GRIP! ITS AN ASSAULT RIFLE! !ban

 

News flash. There's no such thing as an assault rifle. You guys have to refocus your arguments to correct the problem.

 

 

Agreed!

[ajnl]

Well, gun laws are pretty much a side path to the orginal subject

my ontopic reaction still counts: NRA says we need guns at school, bit later you read about a guard losing his gun...

 

Of course this news is probably blow up by media and recent events, but it makes me wonder how people can think that guns on a school in a genuine good idea.

I never really went in discussion, because I know just like with religion threads this will end up (well, it actually already is) a flamewar.

 

For this reason I also never until now expressed my thinking about guns (see AJ quote above). Like many here I'm not anti-gun (for sports and hunting), but I'm just not capable in understanding why people defend the NEED to own them so much. Fine, you want guns. It should be possible, but under STRICT conditions

 

Ow wait, can't do that... Evil government and stuff. Forgot about that => nope, don't want to start flamewar again, it was sarcasm...

 

Never trust the government! hahaha

 

yeah but it is way too difficult here, which makes it not rlly worth it anymore. Costs so much money. And those strict conditions only apply to citizens, criminals won't abide by those strict conditions. That is how the guy in Belgian had grenade launchers and stuff like that.

 

All the guards at my school in Haiti had shotguns and we never had any problems.

 

My brother lives out in the middle of no where in Colorado and he wants to get a shotgun for his wife, so that if some1 came into the house it would be easy for her to pick it up and kill/injure him/her. It would take way to long for a cop to show up and if you have it hanging in the room she spends the most time in, it is well worth it.

Edited January 21, 2013 by ajnl

[CSL]

Just my 2 cents. First of all IMO most gun violence is commited by guns that are obtained illegally, so to put the onus of gun violence on legal gun owners is totally wrong and misplaced. The problem in the United States is that no one wants to tkae responsibility for their own actions there always needs to be a scapegoat that has nothing to do with the real problem. In the inner city the attitude is to f*** you to any authority especially the police. Working as an Emt on an amulance in a shit neighborhood in Brooklyn we actually got shot at by some bangers. Unfortunately we are not addressing the real issue which is a welfare society with way to many entitlements creating a situation where its more lucrative for someone to sit on their ass than get a real job, and said people then complain about the police. Logic states that if the majority of crimes are commited in certain demographical circles than the majority of perps will be X and the majority victims will be Y and the amount of cops around will be Z. My dad took me to the shooting range and the tender age of 10 not to show me that guns are cool but to teach me the damage they can afflict and to show me what a great responsibility it is to own a gun. The constitution of the United States is the most hallowed document and shouldnt be changed because our President wants to put a band-aid on a problem that most people cant stomache what it would take to correct the problem. I moved to Israel 2 years ago, here all the schools have an armed gaurd and you know what no gun violence in schools. The only answer to the problem of illegal gun violence is to let the police do their job and let them use all the tools necassary to do so. If it means profiling than so be it. Outlawing guns because of illegal gun violence is like outlawing McDonalds because people are fat, its not McDonalds fault that people cant keep their traps shut. Today its a ban on guns and tommorow its a ban on Big Macs.

[ApfelGanja]

I disagree completely with you, nearly all of my neighbors have firearms in their homes with their children present and allowed to use those firearms with parental supervision.Our children are safe with them because we are responsible parents that teach our children to respect and safety handle guns and we show them the consequences of what a gun can do, plus very strict consequences if they are mishandled (IE: spare the staff, spoil the child) We have a distinct need for them for defense as we have no real effective police force near by( closest PD able to respond to our area is 30 min away), most of us provide food for our families though hunting of game animals and you are a coward if you would not kill an intruder and let your family be hurt instead. Do I need a gun to stop a intruder no, but if they have one I would be dumb not to level the odds. We have had no gun related violence on our citizens in my community since I have lived here (going on ten years). Those citizens have stopped several violent criminals and held them till PD could arrive and arrest them. About Piers Morgan well he gets what he gets. Your first amendment right( British national so technically we do not have to extend that right to him) only protects you from persecution by the government on your right to speak freely. once you enter into a agreement for gainful employment you waive that right to unless your employer agrees with what you say. You receive compensation from the employer to represent them and can expect to be terminated at will if you ever deviate from the wishes of the company. As for the call to deport him it is within the legal rights of the government to deport foreign nationals at will for any reason, If you want to live here and have all the rights guaranteed under the Constitution then apply for citizenship and become a contributing member of our society.

I have asked a police officer friend of mine that if private gun ownership is banned will they be turning in their arms as well. He said of course not its different because we are sworn to protect and criminals will still posses the high power weapons and they need to be able to match force. So I say that if the police who are sworn to protect are afraid of the criminal element then why should I remain defenseless before them and the police. If you don't believe that a police force can be turned against the citizens look at soviet Russia, nazis Germany, communist china, I could go on but I hope you get the point. Our government exists because We the People allow it to exist not the government allows us to exist.

disarming the honest citizens has no positive impact on gun crimes or availability of guns to criminals, look at Washington D.C, Chicago and New York all of these have the strictest gun laws in the country yet have the highest gun violence against unarmed citizens in the country.

We don't have a gun problem in our country we have a people problem, We need to fix our society first then we can work on other issues.

 

Just to reply to the post about how long it takes to defend yes defense guns loaded at all time, they are mounted on the wall where the young children can not get to them there are no locks on them because they are respected and not toys, external security and anti intruder counter measures allow us to make ready in about 30 seconds. Thanks to state law if you are on my land without my permission and I precive you as a threat to my safety I am authorized to use lethal force.

The fact that your town hasn't had any major violence in 10+ years is great and I'm happy for your community but the size of the town/city has a major impact on violence rates. Large cities will almost inevitably have more crime of any kind than say, a town of 50,000.

Cyprus has about 1mil people and Limassol (the city I live in) has about 200,000 and in the 7 years I have spent here I haven't heard of a single murder. A dozen unarmed robberies and a few suicides but no murder, whereas a large city like NY, murders probably occur on a daily basis. Hunting shotguns are legal here too but that's it. The police here is so useless that I think if I called them as I was being robbed, they would show up an hour later despite the police station being only 15min away.

Your point on the USSR, the PRC and the Third Reich is valid and in some countries martial law still exists. I get that.

But generally on guns. Let's agree to disagree.

Limassol signing off.

Edited January 21, 2013 by ApfelGanja

[ApfelGanja]

Just my 2 cents. First of all IMO most gun violence is commited by guns that are obtained illegally, so to put the onus of gun violence on legal gun owners is totally wrong and misplaced. The problem in the United States is that no one wants to tkae responsibility for their own actions there always needs to be a scapegoat that has nothing to do with the real problem. In the inner city the attitude is to f*** you to any authority especially the police. Working as an Emt on an amulance in a shit neighborhood in Brooklyn we actually got shot at by some bangers. Unfortunately we are not addressing the real issue which is a welfare society with way to many entitlements creating a situation where its more lucrative for someone to sit on their ass than get a real job, and said people then complain about the police. Logic states that if the majority of crimes are commited in certain demographical circles than the majority of perps will be X and the majority victims will be Y and the amount of cops around will be Z. My dad took me to the shooting range and the tender age of 10 not to show me that guns are cool but to teach me the damage they can afflict and to show me what a great responsibility it is to own a gun. The constitution of the United States is the most hallowed document and shouldnt be changed because our President wants to put a band-aid on a problem that most people cant stomache what it would take to correct the problem. I moved to Israel 2 years ago, here all the schools have an armed gaurd and you know what no gun violence in schools. The only answer to the problem of illegal gun violence is to let the police do their job and let them use all the tools necassary to do so. If it means profiling than so be it. Outlawing guns because of illegal gun violence is like outlawing McDonalds because people are fat, its not McDonalds fault that people cant keep their traps shut. Today its a ban on guns and tommorow its a ban on Big Macs.

McDonalds tastes like crap anyway so why not! I lived in Israel as a kid (my mom is half Israeli) and the armed guards is generally because of the 'situation' that's been going on since 1948. Constant shelling, dogfights, border skirmishes, village raids etc.

One of my mother's friends lived in a kibbutz for 5-6 years and about a week before giving birth she witnessed her husband being blown to pieces by a PLO shell. She went into depression and suffered a miscarriage and I can understand that an armed guard may have noticed the shelling and told everyone to get into a shelter or something but there are no guns in a kibbutz. Israel is in a semi-permanent state of war on it's borders whereas the US conflict is thousands of miles away (so I can understand armed guards there) and I bet at least 20% of Americans wouldn't be able to point out Iraq, Afghanistan, Korea or Vietnam on a map just by knowing where it is situated. But US education is another discussion for another day.

[TulsaGeoff]

Just because a guard stupidly left his gun in the bathroom does not mean someone is going to get hurt. I bet the kid that saw the gun told the teacher and they took care of it. A gun left alone is not going to cause injury. I'd rather have an armed guard than nothing for whenever SHTF.

[Lulu]

Whether or not armed guards in school are a good idea or not, one thing is for sure...this guy shouldn't be one.

[Ol Smoke]

This guy doesn't even get his hands slapped. But, a little grade school girl made a paper gun yesterday, and she caught holy hell and almost expelled.

 

Personally, I think it should be mandatory for all school age children to receive proper gun education throughout their young school years. Like I did.

I respected firearms and knew how to use them at a very early age. I never "played" with a weapon. I played with toy guns. Weapons are deadly,

and our kids are not being taught that difference.

When I was in high school, we drove our pickups to school and everyone had a gun rack with a rifle in it. We even had shop classes on how to clean them properly.

I built a complete stock for my 30.06 in the tenth grade, in school wood shop. But those were different days and different times. Today's parents want the government

to be liable for raising their children. Everyone wants to blame someone else for everything, and then sue them for the money they don't have.

 

We need to cowboy up people.

 

and by the way...what good is an unloaded pistol??

[Lulu]

and by the way...what good is an unloaded pistol??

 

I didn't even think about that....

[ApfelGanja]

This guy doesn't even get his hands slapped. But, a little grade school girl made a paper gun yesterday, and she caught holy hell and almost expelled.

 

Personally, I think it should be mandatory for all school age children to receive proper gun education throughout their young school years. Like I did.

I respected firearms and knew how to use them at a very early age. I never "played" with a weapon. I played with toy guns. Weapons are deadly,

and our kids are not being taught that difference.

When I was in high school, we drove our pickups to school and everyone had a gun rack with a rifle in it. We even had shop classes on how to clean them properly.

I built a complete stock for my 30.06 in the tenth grade, in school wood shop. But those were different days and different times. Today's parents want the government

to be liable for raising their children. Everyone wants to blame someone else for everything, and then sue them for the money they don't have.

 

We need to cowboy up people.

 

and by the way...what good is an unloaded pistol??

 

I'm not going to argue vs. the rest of what you wrote, but here's the answer to your question:

An unloaded pistol can act as a deterrent. The aggressor/person you want to kill/ person you want to frighten to death/burglar/criminal will probably not know whether the gun is loaded and the fact that a gun is being pointed at him will probably make him/her assume that it is loaded and just maybe stop them from doing whatever it is they were doing such as robbing/trying to pick up a knife and stab you/start a fistfight/etc.

Same as what's the point of having nuclear weapons if you're not going to use them? Deterrents and showing you're tough. I don't know about you but I'm pretty happy the Cuban Missile Crisis did not end in nuclear war.

[jaie]

Losing your firearm is a big mistake, and I think he lost it in a staff bathroom - which visitors also use, rather than a student bathroom.

 

only an idiot would assume a firearm being aimed at them is not loaded

 

I think getting of with a warning for your first mistake is fair (he followed protocool and his firearm was unloaded etc) - if the mistake doesn't have serious consequences, but i'm sure that he will be in a far worse situation if such a mistake occurs twice.

[EmtHipple]

Carrying a unloaded firearm is ridiculous. Yes most people would assume that the gun is loaded, but your dead and now your gun is in the hands of a criminal if they decide to rush you and you have to load to defend your self. For those of you that have never been in a situation that called for drawing you weapon let me explain. First you need to positively identify the threat and be aware of alternative means of diffusing the situation( big time carry fan, but shoot is the very last means). Second if need to draw arises you need to be able to draw, set and fire in a fluid well practiced motion ( if I'm drawing on you expect to be shot) any hesitation or additional movements to cock or load weapons allows your target time to attack you and shows reluctance to kill. If you are in that situation your target is obviously not bothered by the idea of killing or seriously injuring you. If they do not run from you but instead offer a opposing force( I don't care what kind of weapon they have be it a gun or other hand held device) The average human can cover 21 feet in less then one to two seconds ( go ahead and give it a try some time have a friend rush you from various distances and see how fast they can move

) you will not be able to load and deliver an accurate shot in time since most true self defense situations that justify deadly force occur at ranges less than 40 feet.

The gun should be loaded with a round in the chamber anytime you strap it on( exception for double action revolvers, I carry mine on a dead cylinder since the action of pulling the trigger will rotate the cylinder and ready the weapon to fire in one motion) pick a weapon that has a positive as well as a passive safety( think 1911a1, has a thumb safety as well as grip safety that must be squeezed in order for the gun to fire) and remember you are the ultimate safety, don't carry if you are mentally unable to use the weapon and keep that finger off the trigger unless you intend to kill someone.

 

Smoke I remember those days too, but we also had morals and responsibility then. Our schools won't teach driver's ed, sex ed and hell some are dropping phys. ed , So I see no hope for gun safety Would be great if they did,It's fear of the unknown that clouds people's minds

[Ol Smoke]

This is the end of this for me so I will finish with this:

 

If you point a weapon at someone today, for any reason, you best be ready to pull the trigger. Bad guys and kids today will make you pull it.

I have pulled my weapon on someone once. I had to put a shot at his feet to show him I meant to kill him. If I hadn't, he would have kept coming at me.

 

The End

[ajnl]

You can hit someone with an unloaded pistol lol

[EmtHipple]

You can hit someone with an unloaded pistol lol

only once

 

at that point i'd rather have a knife