New AMD cpu

[Jefke]

it's been a long and arduous past few years for AMD’s processor division as they've constantly been one step behind primary competitor Intel. The pain started back in 2006 when Intel launched its Core 2 Duo series, which disposed of the ill equipped Athlon64 X2 range.

With no immediate answer, AMD moved the Athlon64 X2 architecture to the 65nm design process, where they ended up with the Athlon 64 X2 6000+ clocked at 3.1GHz. However just as the Athlon64 X2 architecture was meeting the end of the road, AMD unleashed their long-awaited Phenom processors. By that time AMD was doing battle with a hardened Core 2 Quad range.

AMD struggled again as the new Phenom X4 processors didn't perform up to expectations. Yet this was the least of AMD’s worries. Their latest creation was plagued by a design flaw that became famously known as the TLB Bug. The quick solution was to disable the CPU's L3 cache, a key feature that when disabled reduced performance further.

Around the same time AMD was dealing with the Phenom issues, Intel was ready to show their first Core i7 processors with the arrival of the Core i7-920, 940 and Core i7-965 Extreme Edition.

 

This is when the shift in AMD's strategy became more evident. Unable to compete for the performance crown, the company targeted their entire processor lineup toward mainstream markets. The Phenom II X4 920 and 940 Black Edition processors were released on January 2009. For $200 the X4 940 was the cheapest route to get your hands on a quad-core processor.

AMD has continued to improve the Phenom II range to this day, with the Phenom II X4 980 Black Edition leading the charge for the quad-cores, and the six-core Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition remaining as the flagship offering. The Phenom II has had to deal with the Intel Core i7 on multiple platforms, as well as the Core i5 and Core i3 processors, for almost 3 years now.

After all this time, is the pain finally coming to an end for AMD? A code-name has been tossed around for years now that is meant to do exactly that, that name is Bulldozer. Today AMD is launching its new FX processor lineup comprised of the flagship FX-8150 along with the FX-8120, FX-6100 and FX-4170 processors.

 

The Bulldozer desktop processors are based on the "Zambezi" 32nm architecture and will feature up to 8-cores. This means AMD is featuring the world’s first 8-core desktop solution that's been designed from the ground up.

For better or for worse, AMD doesn't seem completely interested in charging for the performance crown. Eight cores or not, AMD will keep working the value angle by delivering processors that provide unbeatable bang for your buck. The fastest of the bunch, the FX-8150 will retail for $245, making it 20+% cheaper than the popular Sandy Bridge-based Core i7-2600K.

 

source: http://www.techspot....ldozer-fx-cpus/ (full article and benchmarks)

 

personal opinion: I was looking forward to the high-end version of the fx cpu (the fx 8150), but when I see the price I don't consider it a good deal. The performance aren't just there to be the well know 'bang for your buck' (the Core i5 2500K is cheaper and performance in many ways better). With the other versions in the serie the performance/price ratio is much better.

So I will just overclock my phenom II X6 1090T, skip the AMD cpu and when I decide to build a new pc I will consider for the first time to jump to Intel

[JoeDirt]

Amd has stopped being a serious contender in CPU market for past 5 years, they just don't have the resources and facilities that Intel does, and that will not change for a foreseeable future. Their bread and butter so to speak is selling their cpus to major pc manufacturers to put into their low end model pc's and laptops.

[BlackBull]

I saw a preview of the new FX series AMD Bulldozer are 8 CORE!

 

[DJ aka GDR DJ]

I saw 4 FX- CPU listed in German shop but no delivery date

[Glyphz]

So this is what you call a Octo Core Huh loll, got to get me one of these!

[Vanaraud]

Was also waiting for da "bulldozer", if the price\preformance rate is good and its not too hot then why not. AMDs XFX 6950 was a beast and pretty happy with current MSI version. So AMD is building up the trust for me now...

[Arag_Azgit]

In 1680x1050 impossible to compare even with i5-2400 or 2500... maybe even 2320...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fx-8150_10.html

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/2011/test-amd-bulldozer/14/

 

 

In 1920x1080 more closer (because of the limitation by GPU), but still on the tail...

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8150-zambezi-bulldozer-990fx,3043-19.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8150-zambezi-bulldozer-990fx,3043-20.html

 

All this sounds to me that when you will not overclock it massively, then the overall performance (on default or near tackts) will be simillar to Phenom II X6 !

 

I knew that the fastest i7 will be not defeated, a lot of leaked tests came during last moths, but that will come completely new architecture with simillar performance like 2 years old Phenom II (Stars...), that was fail from AMD, I´ve not expected.

 

ATM I am thinking what to buy, if something, there are few situations to consider:

 

a ) to buy something like i5-2320 with 3Ghz default, 3,3Ghz on turbo, P67 socket 1155 mainboard, 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 getting together with mine current GTX480 1,5GB... and possibly switch to Ivy Bridge when will come next year

b ) to buy i5-2500K, overclock on the eg 4Ghz, P67 socket 1155 mainboard, 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 getting together with mine GTX480 1,5GB... and dont cosider the swithc because of price/performance change is not so high (predicted 20% in CPU performance, presuming 1155 socket again)

c ) to buy something like Phenom II X4 965, 990FX AM3+ mainboard, 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 getting together with mine GTX480 1,5GB... and for sure switch to Bulldozer when comming with more interresting price/performance or directly to Piledriver when will come next year (predicted ?? performance, presuming AM3+ socket again)

d) f*ck it all up and buy SSD )

 

Thanks for your comments, if possible.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Arag_Azgit

[tdkxeon]

i have been waiting for bulldozer for a while. it was planned in 2008 and delayed 4 times. i have seen performance number on bulldozer, and its strange that even amd's previous gen phenoms are better than bulldozer cpu's.

i am still gonna buy this one. performance numbers doesnt bother me. i dont even need a quad core, dual core is good enuf for me.i gotta buy amd so that amd doesnt die. the moment amd is out of battle, intel cpus will no longer be in 200 300 dollar range.

 

on the other hand, there might be a problem with the chipset. possibly a bug. i have seen bulldozer's architecture, it has to be atleast better than phenoms.

or a bios feature that was supposed to be turned on or tuned before actually running benchmarks.

[Vanaraud]

I agree with you xeon that somebody has to keep the competitor alive but as I saw the THW review my opinion on "Bulldozer" shifted 180 degrees. Same price as i7 2500 and performance is the same or i7 beats it. The bad side of AMD is its drawing more power with same results. So hard to see now why to bother with it. Only if AMD doesn´t drop the prices. But still one would need to invest in cooling to run it OC-d cool and smooth.(I guess more power more heat)

[General]

I agree with you xeon that somebody has to keep the competitor alive but as I saw the THW review my opinion on "Bulldozer" shifted 180 degrees. Same price as i7 2500 and performance is the same or i7 beats it. The bad side of AMD is its drawing more power with same results. So hard to see now why to bother with it. Only if AMD doesn´t drop the prices. But still one would need to invest in cooling to run it OC-d cool and smooth.(I guess more power more heat)

It does not have the same power as the i7 2600......

 

In 1680x1050 impossible to compare even with i5-2400 or 2500... maybe even 2320...

http://www.xbitlabs....fx-8150_10.html

http://www.computerb...d-bulldozer/14/

 

 

In 1920x1080 more closer (because of the limitation by GPU), but still on the tail...

http://www.tomshardw...fx,3043-19.html

http://www.tomshardw...fx,3043-20.html

 

All this sounds to me that when you will not overclock it massively, then the overall performance (on default or near tackts) will be simillar to Phenom II X6 !

 

I knew that the fastest i7 will be not defeated, a lot of leaked tests came during last moths, but that will come completely new architecture with simillar performance like 2 years old Phenom II (Stars...), that was fail from AMD, I´ve not expected.

 

ATM I am thinking what to buy, if something, there are few situations to consider:

 

a ) to buy something like i5-2320 with 3Ghz default, 3,3Ghz on turbo, P67 socket 1155 mainboard, 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 getting together with mine current GTX480 1,5GB... and possibly switch to Ivy Bridge when will come next year

b ) to buy i5-2500K, overclock on the eg 4Ghz, P67 socket 1155 mainboard, 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 getting together with mine GTX480 1,5GB... and dont cosider the swithc because of price/performance change is not so high (predicted 20% in CPU performance, presuming 1155 socket again)

c ) to buy something like Phenom II X4 965, 990FX AM3+ mainboard, 2x 4GB DDR3 1600 getting together with mine GTX480 1,5GB... and for sure switch to Bulldozer when comming with more interresting price/performance or directly to Piledriver when will come next year (predicted ?? performance, presuming AM3+ socket again)

d) f*ck it all up and buy SSD )

 

Thanks for your comments, if possible.

Id say do the 2nd option.

[Arag_Azgit]

tdkxeon: Vanaraud: For sure there has to be competion, I remember times when at least mainstream CPU or motzherboard with Intel chipset was sooo expensive that somebody cant imagine. Same thing is for now, Intel has 65% margin and maintains bilions of USD overturn in a quartal.

 

Socond think is on the other hand - anti-monopoly departments all the world are behaving much more friendy to Intel when he is not the only one in this area of business. When AMD will close the CPU division, probably will be Intel forced to divide the company because of oligopolic/monopolistic position in a lot of countries mainly in EU and US. What means, actually the existence of AMD on the CPU field is for Intel benefitial as well!

 

For sure also will come new BIOS and drivers for Bulldozer HW and manufaturers of software will take into consideration completely new architecture of Bulldozer, what needs to be implemented into a game. What is bad is, that AMD promiosses just 10% performance improvement. I was almost sure about buying BD to support AMD but I will not buy a crap, sorry to say, when I can for the same money buy better product.

 

General: Yeah probably I will make a great mix with Sandy Bridge inside, massive overclock, system on SSD drive... what will give me maximum performance. I was almost sure about buying BD, but these informations are cooling my visions enough. SB is better now.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Arag_Azgit

[tdkxeon]

alrite,

 

if u wanna go in real details about bulldozer then here is the thing

 

every benchmark ran on this processor, none of them were optimized for 8 cores, they barely use 3 cores.

its the same scenario when dual core was launched, dual core had almost no performance gain over single core

and its not like dual core was of no use, its just that those apps were not optimized for 2 cores

 

 

most of the apps, even server side are only optimized for about 4 cores.(not talking bout threads)

so its just like there is a medicine out there for a disease, but the disease dont exist yet !!!!

 

moreover none of the benchmarks above, shows the cpu utilization of the processor. i wont take it for granted from those ppl.

they could be getting paid by intel to turn down their competition.

 

from what i know, 8 cores are better than 4 cores or 8 threads, and its amd, 2nd largest processor manufacturer,

 

do you think they would even launch this processor if they didnt see any improvement ?

 

the processor has the horrsepower, we just need some apps that would use it, and i think 8 core optimized apps should show up starting jan 2012 !!

 

cheers !

[General]

Ive been talking to some people who were looking at benchmarks and....It could possibly, or probably, will suffer MORE on higher-optimized games

[Arag_Azgit]

http://techreport.co...icles.x/21813/7

 

Another review to the colection - try to find out 3 differences from other (joke) - stil FX on the tail.

 

edit: In a lot of reviews you can find multi-thread applications, where is FX better than in single-thread, but even in those applications are Sandy Bridge at least comparrable or better. I hope, with some optimisations, will BD improve the score, but we can clearly say it will be not with 20-30% what needs to win the competition... I am talking about threads when describing the application, not about the cores (what is accurate just for describing the hardware - for applications testing is not important if the application goes in eg. 6-thread mode on tripple core with HT, or in 6-threads on 6-core (3-modules with 6 cores), what is important is just the result. For sure, core, however with some common units shared with the second core, will be mode variable (can share and dedicate sources more flexibly)....... there is but one BUT-

 

RESULT. Yes, we can try to think about what is probably better in some situation - however - current situation tolds to us, that the BD concept is not designed and more effective for current single-thread applications, and in a lot of ways is approximatedy equivalent for multi-thread applications we know to Sandy Bridge, what is rapidly more effective on a base performance/tact.

 

The dark side of argumentation of AMD fans is, that they are like you said, finding the cure for disease what currently not exists, but they think it will exist sometime in future What is quite weird is, that we have here multi-core and HT probably from the Pentium 4 generation, what is the year 2002, and native multicores since 2005 (in A-64 X2 series), and still in almost 2012 we have single-thread and low-amount-thread applications here. Do you really think, that from 1.1.2012 will be some multri-thread boom?

 

We all know, and developers do know it as well, that the HW has capabilites what are NOT used and fully implemented in SW area, what means, HW capabilities are MUCH higher than applications CAN use, at this moment. The way is not to dictate the development by HW teams but on contrary, SW business must do the job now.

 

Nothing changes about performance of FX series comparing to Sandy Bridge.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Arag_Azgit

[Vanaraud]

I noticed in the end of Toms article that with windows 8 it could do much better, so let´s wait and see when it hits the markets and theres full review of all bulldozer series. Still little hope.