CaldasGSM Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 In the other day I was criticized for finishing a map to early.. I know that ppl like to play the maps.. and one argument that I heard is that this was not a scrim server.. Well, this goes more as a question for debate then a complaint or anything else.. In my case, I was able to get passed the other team, I got the obj without opposition.. :shock: I had time to stop to reload the weapon on the ammo rack.. and only then went to deliver the obj.. of course this was only 5 minutes after start.. :? but what should I do in that case... turn back .. Or not event try to get the obj in the first 5 min. And what if that was the only chance my team had to get the obj.. should it be wasted... Im not the kind of guy that goes on skipping objectives, to rush maps (like taking the tunnel on fuel dump) but if all the obj are completed and no enemy around.. whats the next step, if not finish the map.. I know that ppl like to enjoy the maps.. and supposedly this is not a scrim server.. but this is.. (and we cant forget) a 'scrim' game (don't quite got the concept).. it is obj oriented.. what are ppl doing if not defending the obj.. is it my fault, if when ppl ear "Objective as been taken" don't run to recapture it.. finally.. just one more point.. for soldiers and other classes it may just be about killing enemies.. but for eng.. is about the obj.. are ppl supposed to stop playing as eng.. The simple question is... If a map is finished because of a huge lack of defense.. is that rushing... IMHO.. no.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackmey Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 For one, I oppose rushing a "steal the documents" type map like frostbite, or adler. Someone who has a lot of skill, on a pub server, often dominates everyone else there, and if said person decides to end the map, it's gonna end. I mean, who the hell is gonna prevent someone like evidence from grabbing the obj and getting a 15 kills spree on his way out? (Not saying evidence would rush a map) I agree that the defending team should definitely ramp up the defense, but there's absolutely no reason not to way at least a few minutes before doing the obj in a map - it's not like winning early gets you anything. Being able to end the map in < a minute or two usually means the teams are stacked anyway, or that it's that one player nobody can kill... Loading up a map, getting three frags, then have it finish sucks. Another thing that pisses me off is when people repeatedly end maps in the first minute, whine that there is no defense after I repeatedly tell them to stop rushing, and then keep bitching if I move them to the other team. Map rushing is against the rules. So, instead of ruining the map for everyone else for an instant of self-gratification, (ZOMG I WON on a PUB server, WOW!) see if you can move to the other team to balance it out, or (without whining, ffs) tell an admin the teams are bad, if they are. Sorry if I come off looking a little harsh, but people bawling their eyes out because I don't want to play musical maps is starting to piss me off. (Not meaning to target you in particular caldas) One last thing though, I sometimes find myself completely oblivious to the fact that the objective has been taken; If I'm in a firefight at the time I'm not paying much attention to those notifications. Would it be possible to add a little documents (or w/e) Icon somewhere on the screen when they're in enemy hands, just as another heads-up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators daredevil Posted February 25, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 25, 2009 Calda you are right but here is my reasons: 1. Everyone doesn't know maps. 2. It takes 30 sec to 120 sec to load the map at client side (some are using 2 decade old PC) 3. 14-18 sec spawn time. A player with good sense of map can finish it within 3 mins no big deal. My question: Why its hard to get objective after 5 mins? @Ackmey Press tab and u can see who has objective and use command map/hud to find him on map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milli vanilli Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 its like i posted before, if only 2 people have more than 10 kills, then map ended too quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaldasGSM Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 if said person decides to end the map, it's gonna end as you said... not if he defending team should definitely ramp up the defense One against 10 are small odds and if he still manages..well.. let him win the map he deserves there's absolutely no reason not to way at least a few minutes before doing the obj in a map Question:then what should I do turn back around or just sit on spawn ? So, instead of ruining the map for everyone else for an instant of self-gratification .. for me its not about gratification its about playing the game as it is supposed to be played.. conquer the obj.. if you can move to the other team to balance it out the problem is that I hate playing axis.. basically means wondering around shooting.. for that I would play unreal tournament... I like to play allies because it gives a purpose to the game.. and direction to the game I sometimes find myself completely oblivious to the fact that the objective has been taken me to.. but I accept it as part of the game.. --- Everyone doesn't know maps. that goes for both teams it takes 30 sec to 120 sec to load the map at client side (some are using 2 decade old PC) 14-18 sec spawn time. again that goes for both sides.. the "winning" and "losing".. Why its hard to get objective after 5 mins? because some times the other team is able to get a grip on defense, and push the allies to the spawn, for the rest of the game... ----- which takes me to the next point... I think a balanced game is one that on 3 or 4 obj the allies take at least half.. Ex: marakesh - get into the city gold rush - blast the bank door fuel dump - take the tank to the other side.. etc... but many times.. the allies don't get them for the 30 min. of the game... and some times they hardly get out of spawn.. why don't ppl complaint about that.. why isn't a rule about that... a rule that says.. if 80% of the time as passed and allies have no objectives.. axis should stand still and let them get an obj :roll: ... you know why..because it would be a stupid rule :oops: ...and ppl would turn and say.. "if they want the obj, come and get it"... but in that case shouldn't others be able to say "if you want keep the obj, take on the defense"... to me it make no sense to have a server that allows spawn killing.. allowing axis to push allies into spawn for 30 min.. and if 1 guy gets a break.. and passes through.. can't win the map... I wouldn't like to doubt about you spec'ing on the server, because I know you spend a lot of time there..but if thats the case. for sure you have seen the amount of times that on fuel dump for ex.. as soon as the tank passed the bridge.. the allies get pushed to spawn for 10,15,20 minutes.. making it impossible to win the map.. and since that happens ..like 8 out of 10 times if the other 2 are rushed isn't that also part of the game? PS: May name CaldasGSM is from "Caldas" my home town and "GSM" my initials.. so please use one of them, "caldas" or "GSM", not "calda" or "cal" or "calds" BTW.. no offense taken if you keep calling calda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackmey Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Question:then what should I do turn back around or just sit on spawn ? You should shoot people. So what if you lose the objective? If you're so good at getting it, grab it again when more than a few minutes has passed... the problem is that I hate playing axis.. basically means wondering around shooting.. for that I would play unreal tournament... I like to play allies because it gives a purpose to the game.. and direction to the game So you're whining at people to defend, and yet you refuse to play on the defensive team? Ah. I see. Makes sense. that goes for both teams Right, but what daredevil wrote still makes sense - like I said before, it only takes one person. So if most of the axis team doesn't know the map, one player can just rush it. because some times the other team is able to get a grip on defense, and push the allies to the spawn, for the rest of the game... So you'd rather rush them before they know what's going on? Like I said before, it's a pub server, and regardless of who wins or loses (most people don't care either way...) the best maps are always those that are balanced. I think a balanced game is one that on 3 or 4 obj the allies take at least half.. Ex: marakesh - get into the city gold rush - blast the bank door fuel dump - take the tank to the other side.. Right, but what about a map like frostbite? The only real thing you have to do is grab the documents. Blowing the doors and capturing the command post is easy, unless the teams are really stacked. but many times.. the allies don't get them for the 30 min. of the game... and some times they hardly get out of spawn.. why don't ppl complaint about that.. why isn't a rule about that... a rule that says.. if 80% of the time as passed and allies have no objectives.. axis should stand still and let them get an obj That brings us to the whole point of the no map rushing rule, people want to enjoy it. So, it's better to play the whole map through and lose than to let it end too early. And yes, people do complain when they hardly get out of spawn... that's called unbalanced teams. I wouldn't like to doubt about you spec'ing on the server, because I know you spend a lot of time there..but if thats the case. for sure you have seen the amount of times that on fuel dump for ex.. as soon as the tank passed the bridge.. the allies get pushed to spawn for 10,15,20 minutes.. making it impossible to win the map.. Right, well instead of whining at the other team to defend when you rush, whine at your team to attack. Or maybe the teams are unbalanced? I know you're a good engy caldas, but with a few more repairing the tank it's not so bad. I don't really understand why you want maps to be ended so fast. Yes, this is an objective oriented game, and it's a great fight when teams are even, but if you get the objective past all enemies right at the beginning, tell yourself you won already, and leave it at that. You don't have to sulk at your spawn... go get some frags, get the obj when it's time. Oh, and daredevil, sorry I'm answering for stuff you wrote, feel free to yell at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaldasGSM Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 If you're so good at getting it, grab it again I never said I has good..thats why I need it the first time to count So you're whining at people to defend, and yet you refuse to play on the defensive team? Ah. I see. Makes sense. I said I don't like to play axisbut thats only a preference.. sometimes I do play axis.. and in those cases I do stick to the defense.. So you'd rather rush them before they know what's going on One thing must be cleared..I'm not defending rushing on purpose.. but I'm defending.. that if a fair chance is givin to finish the map.. a player should be allowed to use it.. without a nose rub on the rules.. but what about a map like frostbite? The only real thing you have to do is grab the documents. Blowing the doors and capturing the command post is easy you must have never seen the games that I see.. 15 just to hold the forward spawn... whine at your team to attack. Or maybe the teams are unbalanced? I know you're a good engy caldas, but with a few more repairing the tank it's not so bad. I do complaint.. and I'm not such a good player.. maybe thats why.. I cant finish the map when I feel like it.. and I need to grab the chance.. :oops: I just don't think is much fair...invoking the rules of no rush.. when Its 1 every 10 times.. and is not done by cheating/Trick Planting/Wall Jumping..but by fair game... THAT is my question.. not that I what to rush every map Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators daredevil Posted February 26, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 26, 2009 Everyone doesn't know maps. that goes for both teams -- It only takes 1 person to win the map if he knows. Bec if both teams dont know map before they know what to do 1 person will grab the obj and rush it. it takes 30 sec to 120 sec to load the map at client side (some are using 2 decade old PC) 14-18 sec spawn time. again that goes for both sides.. the "winning" and "losing".. Defending team has bigger spawn time. 1. they download map and join the server. 2. It takes 18 sec to spawn them back compare to 14 for offensive team. 3 As soon as they join it 1 map rusher has objective in first 2 min and is roaming on the map. Why its hard to get objective after 5 mins? because some times the other team is able to get a grip on defense, and push the allies to the spawn, for the rest of the game... Thats not grip on defense. Thats because they know the map. Each time Axis and Allies know the map it gets hard for allies to win and hence allies has less spawn time compare to Axis to make things balanced. but many times.. the allies don't get them for the 30 min. of the game... and some times they hardly get out of spawn.. why don't ppl complaint about that.. why isn't a rule about that... a rule that says.. if 80% of the time as passed and allies have no objectives.. axis should stand still and let them get an obj :roll: ... - If they don't get for 30 mins then its called allies has lost the map. If allies got the objective after 15 min then its called allies win the map. you know why..because it would be a stupid rule :oops: ...and ppl would turn and say.. "if they want the obj, come and get it"... but in that case shouldn't others be able to say "if you want keep the obj, take on the defense"... to me it make no sense to have a server that allows spawn killing.. allowing axis to push allies into spawn for 30 min.. and if 1 guy gets a break.. and passes through.. can't win the map... - You have spawn killing shield of 3 sec and their are always 2 spawns most of the time. Artillary can be thrown every 45 sec on Etpub. Platers are spawn at least 3 times in that time. If you have less health use the /kill. I wouldn't like to doubt about you spec'ing on the server, because I know you spend a lot of time there..but if thats the case. for sure you have seen the amount of times that on fuel dump for ex.. as soon as the tank passed the bridge.. the allies get pushed to spawn for 10,15,20 minutes.. making it impossible to win the map.. - We have really new spawn points. People hardly use it. I have no idea why they don't press L to see new spawn points. Axis can spawn in hut and coverts can destroy the Axis CP and charge faster. Even in Battery we have around atleast 5 new spawn points. Even our Minas is time based and even in Goldrush GA their are tons of new access to gold. and since that happens ..like 8 out of 10 times if the other 2 are rushed isn't that also part of the game? - It doesn't happen 8 out of 10 times. Ask for someone to use !balance when teams are unbalanced. It will shuffle according to K/D ratio. One good player vs another good player. And thats why we autoshuffle on map start in some maps. -Rushing in short time ruins everyone fun. Frag for 40 percent of the time which is chosen by our players and then go for objective or just end it. PS: May name CaldasGSM is from "Caldas" my home town and "GSM" my initials.. so please use one of them, "caldas" or "GSM", not "calda" or "cal" or "calds" BTW.. no offense taken if you keep calling calda If you always want to bit the clock welcome to our scrim team once you get enough skills to kill the opponent everytime/anytime/with anything. Appreciate for your suggestions but if you can convince "other players" that we should allow map rushing like ending maps in 3 mins then i don't mind it but in my personal opinion it does sucks. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=155 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 i keep hereing aobut this legendary "scrim team" who is it and who do i need to talk to (to) frag with you guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators daredevil Posted February 27, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 27, 2009 i keep hereing aobut this legendary "scrim team" who is it and who do i need to talk to (to) frag with you guys? Do you know what is .6b and etpro? If yes ask fred or epic or for next scrim practice and hook up with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 lol dare have you even read my app? i have played .6b for a long time and etpro is what i am used to. I was on a scrim team that won one of the good old ET tourneys (back when there were upwards of 40 guilds with active scrim teams). Look up on youtube lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators daredevil Posted February 27, 2009 Administrators Share Posted February 27, 2009 lol dare have you even read my app? i have played .6b for a long time and etpro is what i am used to. I was on a scrim team that won one of the good old ET tourneys (back when there were upwards of 40 guilds with active scrim teams). Look up on youtube lol. yeah but i don't remember who plays what. I don't remember each and specific things. When u reach lvl 3 means u are under observation. if u apply on forums means sooner or later u will get lvl 1 if u are good person. From lvl 1 its all how u act on server. If u know etpro contact any our scrim practice player and practice with them when they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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