et server suggestion bullet spread in beginner server

[SunLight]

So, I hope this is the right section, I don't know if this is more a question, a suggestion or a complaint, but coming to the point:

 

I have noticed this (long time ago, it's quite evident actually):

Standard ET weapon spread doesn't go up if you crouch or prone (actually proning is the same as crouching) but stays below a certain (low) threshold, so you hit more or less where you aim. If you stand, on the other hand, it goes up quickly.

 

On jaymod beginner server it goes up even if you crouch, with players having lower accuracies than normal.

 

I was wondering if this behavior is intended, like: 'this is a beginner server, let's make bullets random, so beginners can have a random chance and good players will hit nothing even if they aim well' or if it's just something nobody noticed up to now.

 

I think it's a bit annoying for players to aim well and hit nothing, I'd rather play lottery if I know chance is involved. I don't think it's only me, because average accuracies are lower on that server, and spectating others with cg_crosshairpulse 1 gives the same result.

I wasn't even able to reproduce it on a local server, tried g_misc flag 64 on and off, g_wolfrof... nothing. I have to make more tests but I think the spread is like etpro. Is it caused by enhmod?

 

Personally I sort of adapted to this nonstandard spread, I try to hit the head very quickly because I know that all the other bullets are uber random, but I would like to know what you all think about it (those who play on jay3)

Maybe some would say that it compensates for high rates of fire, but still I don't like randomness...

[daredevil]

I haven't changed bullet spread. So either jaymod or enhance mod.

[SunLight]

ok, nice to know, I wasn't able to reproduce it on a test jaymod (without enhmod) server, so either it's enhmod or I missed some cvar. And it's only on beginners, slow shoot F|A servers are 'normal', so I suspect it's the mp40+thompson config...

 

anyway, it's not really 'so' bad...

 

Being random, sometimes you don't hit when you should have, and sometimes you hit when your aim is a bit off, only it's a bit annoying to shoot while crouching and have the same randomness as when standing, and of course any random option favors player who don't have much precision, but at least players with rifle can stand a chance against medics...

 

I just wondered if it was an intended setting, and you answered my question.

[SunLight]

For what it's worth, I think I found out why, it's not enhmod, after all I see no setting there about spread.

 

from jaymod manual:

g_misc [flags]
[...]
 64	more realistic weapons aim-spread, factoring player crouch/prone, slick-surfaces and water

looking at the word 'realistic', you can already see it's not promising

 

g_wolfrof — enable/disable Return to Castle Wolfenstein rate of fire

 

g_wolfrof 1 (fast shoot) already rises weapon spread a bit, since each bullet you shoot, spread goes up x, and each frame it goes up y (mouse move) plus it goes down z (factor for stand, crouch, prone)

if you shoot faster the amount x + y - z will be more positive, but that is not enough to make bullets so random, the culprit is g_misc 64 flag.

---

Did this little test, cg_crosshairpulse 1, I started shooting while standing, and when spread was maximum I crouched.

• g_misc 0 + wolfrof 0 -> like etpro/etmain, standard behaviour. Crouching made spread go down till minimum.
  
• g_misc 64 + wolfrof 0 -> spread a little higher, but almost normal (I guess on jay1 and jay2 it's like this) still crouching can make it go down.
  
• g_misc 0 + wolfrof 1 -> fast shooting makes spread higher, but without 64 flag you can still lower it by crouching
  
• g_misc 64 + wolfrof 1 -> like jay3, spread stays up and bullets are still random, once it goes up it stays up.
  

[daredevil]

For testing i changed it and remove flag 64. Try now on server and see how it goes. I am not saying, I will keep that settings forever but see how it goes.

[SunLight]

oh thank you very much, I am going to check it asap, I will also check if good players will be too much overpowered with standard spread

[IAmAChristian]

Sorry to hit this up, but what's the difference between fast and slow shoot?

I know RtCW has a different "feel" in shooting vs. ET, but that's different I guess.

Is it literally about spread only? Even though the terms slow and fast are there.

[Frated1]

The difference is, if you go to Jay3 the bullet clips empty at least two times as fast as any other server.

[SunLight]

Sorry to hit this up, but what's the difference between fast and slow shoot?

I know RtCW has a different "feel" in shooting vs. ET, but that's different I guess.

Is it literally about spread only? Even though the terms slow and fast are there.

Let's ignore weapon spread (randomness of bullets) for a moment, and consider only the rate of fire.

 

Yes, if you shoot faster, you will empty your cartridge faster but that doesn't matter, since what matters is how many bullets you need to finish the enemy, and that is not a matter of shooting fast or not, but it depends on how many hp the enemy has and if he has adrenaline or not.

In ET you have 2 basic movements:

- tracking (moving your mouse at the same speed of your enemy)

- 'point and shoot' aim (aiming suddenly at a new spot or target)

 

Fast shooting changes both:

For 'point and shoot' aim, if you manage to aim at the head very quickly you can make 2 hs in no time with fast shoot, so the initial point and shoot aim is more important if compared to slow shoot (also because of spread, if you read below).

 

As regards tracking, in order to hit with slow shooting you need to make sure your xhair is on target exactly when a new bullet will fire. If you are aiming on the target, but your weapon is not firing a bullet in that moment, and after a while you make a mistake right when it fires, you will miss. So with slow shoot you need to be more careful (imho)

 

Another difference is the amount of bullets you can fire when you move your xhair in the opposite direction than the enemy (inevitable because of reflexes, etc.)

Since that wrong move lasts as long as your reaction time, with slow shoot each bullet is 150 milliseconds, so given that the average human reaction time is 200milliseconds (edited this because I made a mistake ) in that time window (200ms) you can miss at most 2 bullets, with fast shooting (in theory) differences in reaction times between players could be enhanced, even though I haven't seen that in practice.

 

Then you have weapon spread. Since the area where bullets randomly go increases every bullet you fire, with fast shooting bullets are more random, especially in situations when everyone has adrenaline and thus more hp (longer fights).

If you add this to the nonstandard (higher) movement speed you have in jay3 and all (?) FA servers, you need to move your mouse more, adding to the weapon spread even further. The result is that after a few bullets the level of randomness gets to the max, and we all know that randomness is the exact opposite of skill (just imagine if the random area was as big as the whole screen, take a total nub and a pro in that situation and they would have the same random chance to hit, aiming anywhere).

 

To summarize:

- point and shoot aim is different, and possibly more important on fast shoot (due also to weapon spread)

- tracking might be harder (you could miss more than 2 bullets in a row), but also easier (you don't have to bother about rate of fire)

- the random bullets will somewhat level player aim skill (bad players can get lucky, good aimers unlucky)

 

But the total effect of these positive and negative things is very small and close to 0 (who is good in fast shoot is good in slow, and especially vice versa)

Edited November 29, 2011 by SunLight