School's armed guard accidentally leaves handgun in the bathroom

[ApfelGanja]

I agree with Anti here. In no way did the NRA choose the man, or tell him to leave his gun there. It should of been holstered on his hip or somewhere similar at all times. He is a moron for even setting it down.

 

I disagree that it is Lockheed or anybody telling me I need a gun. It's ME telling me I need a gun. It's ME telling me I need to pull the trigger in a situation. It's ME making the GUN do something, not the GUN making ME do something. That's like saying your keyboard told you to press the keys on it... Idiotic. I own a gun for two reasons, 1: Recreational use, to go blow up some targets on any given day of the week, and 2: For self protection of both my family, and I. Some dumbass feels the need to try and come into my house to take something, he is going to feel a couple bullets in him.

I agree with Anti here. In no way did the NRA choose the man, or tell him to leave his gun there. It should of been holstered on his hip or somewhere similar at all times. He is a moron for even setting it down.

 

I disagree that it is Lockheed or anybody telling me I need a gun. It's ME telling me I need a gun. It's ME telling me I need to pull the trigger in a situation. It's ME making the GUN do something, not the GUN making ME do something. That's like saying your keyboard told you to press the keys on it... Idiotic. I own a gun for two reasons, 1: Recreational use, to go blow up some targets on any given day of the week, and 2: For self protection of both my family, and I. Some dumbass feels the need to try and come into my house to take something, he is going to feel a couple bullets in him.

is shooting people a tradition in the US?

I will never understand the need civvies have for owning a gun. I can defend myself/my house/my family just fine without shooting everyone who comes in uninvited.

[Antichrist]

Ok... Anti-gun people I have a question.

 

Criminal breaks into my house. Points a gun at me.

 

I have 2 choices: Rush him and hope I don't get shot. Stay still and hope he doesn't shoot me.

What do I do??????

Die like another helpless victim?

 

OR

 

I own guns. Criminal breaks into my house. I grab my firearm. As he draws to point his gun at me, I blow a hole through his chest the size of a grapefruit with my 12 gauge.

 

I hope he carries identification so I can notify his next of kin.

 

No matter how many laws you pass, and even if guns were illegal completely, CRIMINALS WILL STILL OWN THEM, AS THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW. I can understand the points you make for an anti-gun movement, as some arguments you make are valid and do make sense to a certain degree.

 

HOWEVER, 2 facts remain.

1:Criminals will own guns. If all law abiding citizens turn in their weapons, criminals will not, which will cause the crime/murder rate to rise. I refuse to be a statistic.

2: The second amendment GUARANTEES Americans the right to keep and bear arms. And I proudly exercise my right to do so.

 

Gun owner or Victim?

 

You choose.

[kami]

Ok... Anti-gun people I have a question.

 

Criminal breaks into my house. Points a gun at me.

 

I have 2 choices: Rush him and hope I don't get shot. Stay still and hope he doesn't shoot me.

What do I do??????

Die like another helpless victim?

 

OR

 

I own guns. Criminal breaks into my house. I grab my firearm. As he draws to point his gun at me, I blow a hole through his chest the size of a grapefruit with my 12 gauge.

 

I hope he carries identification so I can notify his next of kin.

 

No matter how many laws you pass, and even if guns were illegal completely, CRIMINALS WILL STILL OWN THEM, AS THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW. I can understand the points you make for an anti-gun movement, as some arguments you make are valid and do make sense to a certain degree.

 

HOWEVER, 2 facts remain.

1:Criminals will own guns. If all law abiding citizens turn in their weapons, criminals will not, which will cause the crime/murder rate to rise. I refuse to be a statistic.

2: The second amendment GUARANTEES Americans the right to keep and bear arms. And I proudly exercise my right to do so.

 

Gun owner or Victim?

 

You choose.

 

Oh the cute little hero fantasy is what drives your motivation? Do you know that guy who killed the 20 kids in the massacre killed his mother beforehand? If only she had owned guns to protect herself... Oh wait, she had... He used one of those to kill her...

 

Yeah... Criminals don't abide the law... That's the definition of a criminal... So you're saying that we should get rid of drug laws as drug dealers don't abide those... Or money laundry laws as money launders don't follows those either (weird how that goes...) What's the use of traffic lights and laws if some people don't abide to those? That's a retarded argument at best...

Gun laws do have an effect, in that it decreases the amount of guns that can get stolen by criminals... Decreasing the amount of tools that only serve to kill people reduces the amount of people getting killed... It's simple logic.

[ApfelGanja]

I would feel unsafe if every one of my neighbours had a gun.

Here in Cyprus we have had only 1 gun crime incident (3 people killed in a drive-by) in the last 12 months. This place is safer than any American city or town and there is so much less crime than in America, and guess what? Guns are illegal here! Even if the population difference is taken into account.

And what was all that stuff about deporting Piers Morgan? What happened to freedom of speech?

[ApfelGanja]

Ok... Anti-gun people I have a question.

 

Criminal breaks into my house. Points a gun at me.

 

I have 2 choices: Rush him and hope I don't get shot. Stay still and hope he doesn't shoot me.

What do I do??????

Die like another helpless victim?

 

OR

 

I own guns. Criminal breaks into my house. I grab my firearm. As he draws to point his gun at me, I blow a hole through his chest the size of a grapefruit with my 12 gauge.

 

I hope he carries identification so I can notify his next of kin.

 

No matter how many laws you pass, and even if guns were illegal completely, CRIMINALS WILL STILL OWN THEM, AS THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW. I can understand the points you make for an anti-gun movement, as some arguments you make are valid and do make sense to a certain degree.

 

HOWEVER, 2 facts remain.

1:Criminals will own guns. If all law abiding citizens turn in their weapons, criminals will not, which will cause the crime/murder rate to rise. I refuse to be a statistic.

2: The second amendment GUARANTEES Americans the right to keep and bear arms. And I proudly exercise my right to do so.

 

Gun owner or Victim?

 

You choose.

Gun Owner or victim you say?

Well i don't own a gun and i'm still alive and haven't had the experience of anyone pointing a firearm at me just yet.

[Antichrist]

I'm done. I can't carry on a mature discussion/debate while you anti-gun supporters insult me.

 

Grow up.

[Jefke]

I'm done. I can't carry on a mature discussion/debate while you anti-gun supporters insult me.

 

Grow up.

 

And this is why I decided not to go in discussion about it...

 

It's complete and utterly waste of time.

 

Gunlovers will love guns

Anti-gun people will hate guns

 

add the internet to that and well, you got a hell of a flamewar...

 

Btw, how long does it take to : notice a criminal breaking in, getting your gun, loading it (I assume you don't have loaded guns in your home), getting to the criminal and shoot him... All without him noticing you there, because well he would shoot you right? In Belgium last time I check (official site police) the average time a criminal needs is a mere 5min (start and leaving the house included)...

 

=> You don't have to answer this, but the chance of this kind of event don't justify a gun in my opinion.

I know you will disagree and it's pointless to discuss it and we just should agree to disagree, but it's a sidenote I wanted to add.

 

Now, I'm out too

Edited January 20, 2013 by DrJoske

[Quovadis]

Guns are illegal here and we still have those kind of incident in big cities. You cant compare a small town to a big city and say the small town is better because guns arent legal there.

 

Guns should be legal bur there should be a few tests for the permit to see if the future owner is a mentally correct person.

[EmtHipple]

I would feel unsafe if every one of my neighbours had a gun.

Here in Cyprus we have had only 1 gun crime incident (3 people killed in a drive-by) in the last 12 months. This place is safer than any American city or town and there is so much less crime than in America, and guess what? Guns are illegal here! Even if the population difference is taken into account.

And what was all that stuff about deporting Piers Morgan? What happened to freedom of speech?

I disagree completely with you, nearly all of my neighbors have firearms in their homes with their children present and allowed to use those firearms with parental supervision.Our children are safe with them because we are responsible parents that teach our children to respect and safety handle guns and we show them the consequences of what a gun can do, plus very strict consequences if they are mishandled (IE: spare the staff, spoil the child) We have a distinct need for them for defense as we have no real effective police force near by( closest PD able to respond to our area is 30 min away), most of us provide food for our families though hunting of game animals and you are a coward if you would not kill an intruder and let your family be hurt instead. Do I need a gun to stop a intruder no, but if they have one I would be dumb not to level the odds. We have had no gun related violence on our citizens in my community since I have lived here (going on ten years). Those citizens have stopped several violent criminals and held them till PD could arrive and arrest them. About Piers Morgan well he gets what he gets. Your first amendment right( British national so technically we do not have to extend that right to him) only protects you from persecution by the government on your right to speak freely. once you enter into a agreement for gainful employment you waive that right to unless your employer agrees with what you say. You receive compensation from the employer to represent them and can expect to be terminated at will if you ever deviate from the wishes of the company. As for the call to deport him it is within the legal rights of the government to deport foreign nationals at will for any reason, If you want to live here and have all the rights guaranteed under the Constitution then apply for citizenship and become a contributing member of our society.

I have asked a police officer friend of mine that if private gun ownership is banned will they be turning in their arms as well. He said of course not its different because we are sworn to protect and criminals will still posses the high power weapons and they need to be able to match force. So I say that if the police who are sworn to protect are afraid of the criminal element then why should I remain defenseless before them and the police. If you don't believe that a police force can be turned against the citizens look at soviet Russia, nazis Germany, communist china, I could go on but I hope you get the point. Our government exists because We the People allow it to exist not the government allows us to exist.

disarming the honest citizens has no positive impact on gun crimes or availability of guns to criminals, look at Washington D.C, Chicago and New York all of these have the strictest gun laws in the country yet have the highest gun violence against unarmed citizens in the country.

We don't have a gun problem in our country we have a people problem, We need to fix our society first then we can work on other issues.

 

Just to reply to the post about how long it takes to defend yes defense guns loaded at all time, they are mounted on the wall where the young children can not get to them there are no locks on them because they are respected and not toys, external security and anti intruder counter measures allow us to make ready in about 30 seconds. Thanks to state law if you are on my land without my permission and I precive you as a threat to my safety I am authorized to use lethal force.

[WeetBix KiD]

I'm not anti gun, I've shot a rifle and a semi auto rifle as teenager. Shot at targets with trained personal standing right behind me. I wouldn't say I found it fun.. But was an experience. We have strict gun laws here. They were brought in when Martin Bryant went on a shooting spree in 1996. One of the biggest massacres in the would. We still have shooting from illegally obtained guns. Most are gang or drug related.. We have never had a massacure since these gun laws were put in place. I am glad we have these laws. I like that I can walk my children to the gate of their school and watch them walk to their classroom. Don't have to worry about them getting their hands on a gun or being shot at school. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the chances of it happening are greatly lowered. I have just one question about guns. Why does someone need a semi automatic? Genuine question.

 

 

I would never have a loaded Gun in my house with my kids. No matter how high up and "out of reach" but again that's just e, and someone who has never grown up around guns (besides navy cadets as I pointed out above)

[EmtHipple]

So I just have to throw this out there for everyone to consider. I've heard a lot of comments here and elsewhere to the effect of " Why do you need it". I could ask you the same question, Why do you need a vehicle that goes over 15 mph?, which is the max speed of the average horse at a gallop, Why do you need cell phones, there are phones everywhere now why do you need on in your pocket? combine cell phones and vehicles and the death toll is much higher than any mass shooting on record. So why do people get their children cell phones and let them drive? At the risk of sounding like Mayor Bloomburg Why do we allow people to eat high fat foods and engage in a sedentary life style? both of which are proven to dramatically increase obesity rates and cause fatal health problems.Why are public eateries that serve alcoholic beverages legal when the main mode of getting the patrons there is by vehicle, ETOH consumption combined with driving has killed more children than all the school shootings combined. I could go on but ill save you the rant.

My point is that you can not legislate safety into a society they have to want it or it will not work. We wont ban cars that go fast even though more children die every year in their parents own vehicles while restrained in approved seats because of speed related injures. You can stop the body from moving but you can not stop the internal trauma that results from a violent speed change( see newton's laws). every morning children get on the school bus which by the way does not have seat belts. Alcohol prohibition doesn't work, we tried it and crime rates went to record levels. Mayor Bloomburg is working on the problem of high fat foods but at the end of the day its really you choice what you put in your body not his.

So it all really boils down to a lack of personal responsibility in our society that gives us the social problems we face, like people that have no morals due to a society that shuns religion( I don't care which one they all teach responsibility and caring for your fellow man in there uncorrupted forms) until the day when we no longer have evil on this earth I feel the need to protect and even give my life for the safety of my loved ones. Since governments all over the world are responsible for more death and destruction( on their own people and others) I will remain armed in a fashion that allows me to offer resistance to those that would seek to deprive honest men and women of their freedoms

[EmtHipple]

And to get back on topic. I feel that this officer should be severely punished for this. Accident my ass, I've been carrying since I was old enough to do so legally and it is just bad weapons retention and lack of situation awareness that he lost his weapon, how do you lose your weapon anyway. its simple really, when you are carrying in a public place the gun stays in its holster it you need to draw it, period. and you keep your finger off the trigger till you are ready to fire, no gray area. good lord this is the crap that give the rest of the responsible gun owners and bad rep. You will never see a news story about the gun owners that didn't shot someone or lose their piece .

[ajnl]

I love guns. I want to be able to go up to the shooting range or in my brother's backyard and fire guns. I want to be able to go hunting and I want to know that if some1 breaks in my house I don't ONLY have to rely on police.

 

What I don't want? Police telling me that if someone breaks into my house that i have to either call them and hide or stand there and do nothing.

 

The problem here is evil people, NOT guns...

 

Also, maybe we should stop discussing guns? Its become like discussing religion, its goes no where it should just be locked.

 

Oh the cute little hero fantasy is what drives your motivation? Do you know that guy who killed the 20 kids in the massacre killed his mother beforehand? If only she had owned guns to protect herself... Oh wait, she had... He used one of those to kill her...

 

Yeah... Criminals don't abide the law... That's the definition of a criminal... So you're saying that we should get rid of drug laws as drug dealers don't abide those... Or money laundry laws as money launders don't follows those either (weird how that goes...) What's the use of traffic lights and laws if some people don't abide to those? That's a retarded argument at best...

Gun laws do have an effect, in that it decreases the amount of guns that can get stolen by criminals... Decreasing the amount of tools that only serve to kill people reduces the amount of people getting killed... It's simple logic.

 

Exactly, criminals don't abide by the law. So even if you made guns illegal and you made them as hard as you wanted to get them, criminals will still get them. I think that is pretty simple logic...

[EmtHipple]

did you ever notice the flames seem to start with the anti gun crowd first. If they do not wish to seriously discuss guns and gun rights which are news worthy and relevant to a lot of us on here, then don't read the thread, IE: the first comment on this thread

[Jefke]

I love guns. I want to be able to go up to the shooting range or in my brother's backyard and fire guns. I want to be able to go hunting and I want to know that if some1 breaks in my house I don't ONLY have to rely on police. => Guess what, you can actually do that in most of Europe... Belgian laws don't outlaw guns completely for example. For sports (including shooting at the shooting range) and hunting you can get a license... My stepdad got a pistol (well, he should get it today) and my grandfather had/has a hunting rifle. I'm for strict laws, not banning them completely

 

What I don't want? Police telling me that if someone breaks into my house that i have to either call them and hide or stand there and do nothing. => see my previous comment, how long do you need to react without the criminal knowing you are there

 

The problem here is evil people, NOT guns... => nope, the problem is evil people with guns

 

Also, maybe we should stop discussing guns? Its become like discussing religion, its goes no where it should just be locked. => yup, agree

 

 

 

Exactly, criminals don't abide by the law. So even if you made guns illegal and you made them as hard as you wanted to get them, criminals will still get them. I think that is pretty simple logic...

did you ever notice the flames seem to start with the anti gun crowd first. If they do not wish to seriously discuss guns and gun rights which are news worthy and relevant to a lot of us on here, then don't read the thread, IE: the first comment on this thread

 

Well, gun laws are pretty much a side path to the orginal subject

my ontopic reaction still counts: NRA says we need guns at school, bit later you read about a guard losing his gun...

 

Of course this news is probably blow up by media and recent events, but it makes me wonder how people can think that guns on a school in a genuine good idea.

I never really went in discussion, because I know just like with religion threads this will end up (well, it actually already is) a flamewar.

 

For this reason I also never until now expressed my thinking about guns (see AJ quote above). Like many here I'm not anti-gun (for sports and hunting), but I'm just not capable in understanding why people defend the NEED to own them so much. Fine, you want guns. It should be possible, but under STRICT conditions

 

Ow wait, can't do that... Evil government and stuff. Forgot about that => nope, don't want to start flamewar again, it was sarcasm...