Clan Friend SunLight Posted February 12, 2011 Clan Friend Posted February 12, 2011 @SunLight Is not about if God know or if He see everything, you need recognize your errors, is like if you need learn something so simple like learn about your own mistakes. I agree on the fact that everyone must learn about/from his mistakes, only I don't know why you are telling this specifically to me Wait, why cant you have morals without god? imho the problem of such questions is that language is not perfect. If you ask 1000 people these questions: what does 'god' mean? what does 'morals' mean? they could answer you 1000 different things, yet they don't realize it if you ask them 'why cant you have morals without god?' They think they are all answering the same question, while instead they are not. Because if you don't ask them first what is the meaning of all the words in the sentence, you don't know which question they are answering to. Quote
Papito Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 I agree on the fact that everyone must learn about/from his mistakes, only I don't know why you are telling this specifically to me Because when you're dead, you're gonna go to hell, cause you're a SINNER!!!!!!! Muahahahahahahahaha!!!! Quote
ajnl Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Wait, why cant you have morals without god? Where would morals come from, if evolution is true? Just because we are smarter than animals, plants, etc? Morals can't come out of nothing, especially not evolution. God has to be there for morals to exist. Philosophy Quote
Clan Friend SunLight Posted February 13, 2011 Clan Friend Posted February 13, 2011 Philosophy layman's phylosophy is still philosphy Quote
Saizou Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 I'd further extend the Sunlight's question from the first page about the thinking machine: you basically have a system (one's mind, or ultimately the whole universe) with starting conditions which follows a set of rules and the end result can't vary, meaning free will can't exist, your decisions are result of an equation and pretty much future events are set in stone. Sort of like solving a physics problem for homework, there's only one correct answer. Combine this with what Valkyrie said about the brain in a vat problem and you get yourself a desktop PC. Jokes aside, this has been puzzling me for a while, obviously morals and laws would have no sense if you wouldn't have free will, as it would mean people are powerless in making their decisions and couldn't be held responsible about what they do. I'm sticking to belief that one can make a difference and chooses his own path, but this definitely gives food for thought. Quote
PHANTASM Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Wow. Didnt know this would generate this much interest/responses. Nice to see that so many beleivers still exist. God is great. We all have our god's we beleive in, but the most important thing is that we beleive in a higher being. In my opinion, no answer is wrong or right.It is in here,*pointing to heart*, what really matters. I get you now. You're a friend of Bill W. People can make up any story they want about God, and there is no way for anyone to prove or disprove it. Quote
Clan Friend SunLight Posted February 13, 2011 Clan Friend Posted February 13, 2011 infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters will end up writing all of SunLights posts, and (incidentally) all papers on morals ever written, plus those still to write Quote
One*Click Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 I still don't understand how you need God to have morals. Another thing, out of curiosity, who thinks evolution is not real? Quote
Clan Friend SunLight Posted February 14, 2011 Clan Friend Posted February 14, 2011 I still don't understand how you need God to have morals. Another thing, out of curiosity, who thinks evolution is not real? I think i'm an intelligent person. Studying Aeronautical Engineering. Science has showed me that a God makes more sense Among members of the National Academy of Sciences (sometimes considered to be the world's leading scientists) only 7.0% expressed personal belief, while 72.2% expressed disbelief and another 20.8% were agnostic concerning the existence of a personal god who answers prayer. (survey taken from here) he could belong to that 7%, and since he is intelligent, like all intelligent people he doesn't need to prove things, telling that A implies B is enough proof, telling why is useless. We couldn't understand it anyway because we are common mortals. Btw, there's still people who think evolution is not real, especially in some countries. Because rather than seeking for the Truth, they have some preconceived truths in which they believe, so if something doesn't match with their own truths, they have to refuse it. imho the difference between faith and rationality is that you can convince a rational being of something different, if your argument holds water, but that's not the case with faith, so the association between religion (faith) and intelligence makes no sense (that is, statements like 'I am intelligent so I believe'), actually that very sentence was the reason for which I answered this thread in the first place Quote
Butterz Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 Where would morals come from, if evolution is true? Just because we are smarter than animals, plants, etc? Morals can't come out of nothing, especially not evolution. God has to be there for morals to exist. Philosophy Your argument is invalid. You study aeronautical engineering, yet you do not believe in the ability of man to make his own creations. Are you telling me that God created a part inside of our brain specially for mathematics? Or what about optics, or what about the fundamentals of gravity, or even the fact that the Earth is not flat, and that the Earth revolves around the sun, which the Church did not accept at the time when they were first discovered? Also, I believe you could not be more wrong on the "morals can't come out of nothing". It is one of the basic instincts which drives humans, and it is so clearly visible in other animals. The maternal instinct did not simply happen to befall man when God felt like creating humans, or the protection instinct. And, judging from your earlier statements, I assume you are a creation supporter. Unless I am horribly mistaken, isn't your last sentence from the quote extremely paradoxical? "Morals can't come out of nothing", "God has to be there for morals to exist" Didnt God create man in 7 days? I understand that some of my examples have some hyperbole, but you may get the gist. And also to clarify, I would consider myself agnostic, I am still willing to believe if a proof is found, but I am strongly for evolution Quote
KingCamper Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 IM not gonna get to deep into this cause I dont know enough about the holy bible to but I will tell you my thoughts. After my 1st tour in Iraq I lost all faith (no much) in god after seein friends blowen up and all the bad shit that happens in war. MY pastor I have now is an ol jarhead and knows where i came from. I got saved oct 09 and let me tell you what god loves. prey ask for forgivness and prey and ask god for what you want. AND BELIEVE WHAT YOU ASK FOR IS DONE. and things happen. I cant prove their is a god with facts but you know what god doesnt work like a human cause he isnt he is bigger than anyone could even begain to think of. And when the trumpets start blowing it will be to late to repent and be saved.The time is coming soon and if your name isnt writing in the book of lambs then darkness will fall opon you. 2 were working in the field god took one and left the other. 2 women were sowing god took one and left the other. If you are not sure what side of the fence you are on go to church and learn about god and decide for your self. Quote
Razzled Posted February 14, 2011 Author Posted February 14, 2011 Some valid points made. Interesting. Quote
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