Socialism

[One*Click]

Just to clarify, NoGood, you only disagree with how I think of the tea party?

 

No one in the Tea Party ever says they're Republican (True Tea Party members anyway.) They always state that they're independent and what not. However, why is it that every time they express their views it's similar to the views of Republicans? They agree on the same policies and hate anything the Democrats have to offer. Personally, I think they're a bunch of lunatics.. or extremists. But that's just how I see it. Maybe the media has f*cked with my head.

[Medic Kane]

PHANTASM: it was deliberately to force people into government healthcare a couple of years down the road, the flaw in the plan is that the taxes & such kick in sooner then the government healthcare takes off, so it is being exposed as a sham.

 

A huge part of healthcare is dealing with the government.Medicare REFUSES to pay 10-15% of all Ambulance bills, and underpays the cost of providing Ambulance service by 20%, according to the Center for Medicaid/Medicare numbers. No Insurance company even comes CLOSE to these numbers, because they are held accountable by their customers. Medicaid pays a set about that is so low as to be laughable (50$). Bills are not allowed to be sent to Medicaid members; most of whom are shitbags, who's largest contribution to society is going to be their own death.

 

An EMS service must eat this cost, and must haul these people. This makes the costs higher for everyone else.

 

Not to mention the huge amount of paperwork & documentation that is done, not to provide an accurate medical record, but to try and get Medicare to pay for the services we provided. A majority of EMs companies have a billing secretary whose only job is to try and get reimbursed for services. Often this is in addition to a contracted billing company. Think of added costs involved for a 1 or even 4 ambulance service.

 

Every doctor's office has the same problem.

 

Ask your doctor some time what your appointment would cost if you just payed cash. A lot of times it is cheaper. A lot cheaper.

 

I had a cavity drilled out & filled, with a cover put on another tooth I was grinding.

 

$80. I told him I was paying cash ahead of time.

[NoGooD]

Just to clarify, NoGood, you only disagree with how I think of the tea party?No one in the Tea Party ever says they're Republican (True Tea Party members anyway.) They always state that they're independent and what not. However, why is it that every time they express their views it's similar to the views of Republicans? They agree on the same policies and hate anything the Democrats have to offer. Personally, I think they're a bunch of lunatics.. or extremists. But that's just how I see it. Maybe the media has f*cked with my head.

 

I'm disagreeing with the fact you lumped the Tea Party with republicans and made an incorrect statement regarding them not making suggestions on ways to cut the budget. I'm basing my personal experience of being at a Tea party rally/BBQ and talking to people vs. what the media's been saying about them. Also it's just one small group of tea party backers that live locally in my area (although some of them did drive 5-6 hours to be there). I have no doubt that there are plenty of republican voters in the Tea Party movement, but from what I've seen it's not about Republicans vs. Democrats. It's people that are sick of the government sticking their nose into private and corporate business and their fingers into everyone's pockets.

 

From what I've seen the media has called them racist, redneck, hick republicans extremists that are to the far right. Of course they focus on the 5 people that actually fit that description at a rally and ignore the rest. Of course every group has idiots...just from playing ET you've seen that. I'm not about to comment on everyone from every Tea Party group simply b/c I've had 1 encounter. I'm sure there are some major asshats out there that fly w/e flag the Tea Party flys. Then again I could probably find similar people in every type of political genre.

 

I may end up going to another Tea Party rally, maybe not. The people I met were educated, polite, and there to find out more about the different type of legislation trying to be passed as well as candidates. I think I met people from pretty much every type of polictical party and most of them (even ones I had no idea existed lol) were just there to try and learn more about the political process.

 

I also personally feel the media has everyones head so far up their ass, California just re-elected a bunch of politicians that have been in power for ages, and screwing the state over and over again while telling people its in their best interest. Apparently the moral of the story from this past election is "If it's broke...don't fix it"

 

Of course the one prop I thought a shoe in to pass...failed horribly. Again I think to the bullshit ad's I heard from both side of that issue.

 

Medicaid pays a set about that is so low as to be laughable (50$). Bills are not allowed to be sent to Medicaid members; most of whom are shitbags, who's largest contribution to society is going to be their own death.

 

Ask your doctor some time what your appointment would cost if you just payed cash. A lot of times it is cheaper. A lot cheaper. I had a cavity drilled out & filled, with a cover put on another tooth I was grinding. $80. I told him I was paying cash ahead of time.

 

1. You sound like a jaded veteran of the trade in the first sentence. Sadly there is truth in that statement. Luckily you get to see those same people next shift. I'm still trying to get a frequent rider card instituted in California. After your 4th ride in a month, your last ridel triples the bill. Sadly medicare wasn't down with that idea.

 

2. Quite a few docs aren't setup for cash payments. While laughable it's true that they rely on being paid via medicare/cade and using a billing service to reclaim the rest. Dentists love cash though, lol.

 

 

 

Edit: Goddamn, I wrote a book. wtf. I need a life....or another beer. Probably going with the beer.

Edited November 9, 2010 by NoGooD

[PHANTASM]

PHANTASM: it was deliberately to force people into government healthcare a couple of years down the road, the flaw in the plan is that the taxes & such kick in sooner then the government healthcare takes off, so it is being exposed as a sham.

 

It looks like a deliberate strategy to me. After I lose my job, I will no longer be able to afford private insurance for my family, which costs almost as much as my house payment anyway. So we will, ironically, probably lose our health insurance due to this bill. And then we will need the government plan. Funny in a way.

 

Except the tards didn't provide for a public option, so it doesn't actually give anybody free health insurance. Just screws up the system we have.

 

I think the real motive is not to help people but to drive all the comfortable people like me into poverty. So we will vote for them. But that didn't work.

[that_guy]

I believe another flaw in the system is how people use medical services in this country. I have been working in emergency services since 1999 as a firefighter, dispatcher and emt. I personally have had coworkers go to the emergency room for the common cold instead of using their primary care physician. For some reason they cannot figure out why the wait times in the ER are so long and why insurance rates are climbing. If they would just use their primary care like they are suppossed to than that would help reduce some cost.

With an industry as large as medical insurance it is surprising to see there are no industry standards. Atleast none that are well advertised. In manufacturing you see ISO standards, in safety you see OSEH but for medical insurance who is the setting the standards?

Another issue with the system is people are getting Medicare/Medicaid benefits who have not paid into the program or ever will. Many have paid into the program and are not able to recieve benefits until they are of retirement age. Well what about those who are unemployed and need some benefits for themselves and their family?

I can say that the EMT's and Medics in the field get paid very little yearly and hourly. No different than your police and firemen.

 

I have a great idea. Lets end lifetime health care for legislator's and their spouses. That would save MILLIONS yearly. Than we can look at their payscale and put them somewhere near the median level compairable to the average working family in this county. Once again saving MILLIONS. Here is my last idea (for the moment), lets give our troops in uniform a f***ing raise. Last time I checked those men and women are on the clock 24/7 in the sand box and not getting paid overtime or even a decent wage. Especially for all the stress and trauma they will end up going through.

 

I am done for now.

[Medic Kane]

It is funny that you call me a jaded veteran. I actually love what I do, I have one of the greatest jobs possible. I do understand why you said it though, our system is set up assuming that if you ask for help you need it. We don't have a mechanism in place to filter out people who want a ride down down so they can walk out and get drugs, or go to the mall. The fact is every time you take a truck off the street, that is a Ambulance and/or Paramedic that is not there for the next call. Everywhere I've worked I've listened to the county/region (if neighboring units are close enough to respond) run out of Paramedics. I've left "meh" should have a paramedic just in case PT's for ones that sounded more ill/hurt. If the system abuses generated cash flow into the system, allowing services to put more boots on the ground, it would be different. But they don't, they cost EMS system money, and take providers away from people who are legitimately ill.

 

And of course you're right, not all doctor's are set up to take cash, few now that everyone is grouping together with multiple doctor's in one office. But it never hurts to ask and shop around.

 

The plan was to have a public option later, and have the government sweep in and offer it. But it happened to fast, because business are not stupid or static, and they realized it was going to nearly put them under next year. Why would you wait, if you knew your cable bill was going to go from $50 to 500, would you cancel it? or wait until after you got the bill

 

Medicare if picking up a large number of previously had good insurance people, however, that are old enough to apply now.

[NoGooD]

I believe another flaw in the system is how people use medical services in this country. I have been working in emergency services since 1999 as a firefighter, dispatcher and emt. I personally have had coworkers go to the emergency room for the common cold instead of using their primary care physician. For some reason they cannot figure out why the wait times in the ER are so long and why insurance rates are climbing. If they would just use their primary care like they are suppossed to than that would help reduce some cost.

With an industry as large as medical insurance it is surprising to see there are no industry standards. At least none that are well advertised. In manufacturing you see ISO standards, in safety you see OSEH but for medical insurance who is the setting the standards? HIPPA set the safety standards for the medical treatment facilities. It's part of the reason why if you present to an ED with CP, SOB, sat 98% r/a with normal color but your asthma is having a flare up you end up getting an EKG b/c the doc or PA want to r/o an Ml to cover their ass.

 

Another issue with the system is people are getting Medicare/Medicaid benefits who have not paid into the program or ever will. Many have paid into the program and are not able to recieve benefits until they are of retirement age. Well what about those who are unemployed and need some benefits for themselves and their family?

I can say that the EMT's and Medics in the field get paid very little yearly and hourly. No different than your police and firemen. lol. Most people don't realize the guy pulling your ass out of a car in freezing water or doing CPR on you in the field get paid slightly above minimum wage in many cases. The firefighter Unions in Cali have it hooked up though. If you get on in a city or county dept your making pretty good money and excellent benefits. The benefits I don't mind so much b/c these guys are risking their ass daily to help others.

 

I have a great idea. Lets end lifetime health care for legislator's and their spouses. That would save MILLIONS yearly. Than we can look at their payscale and put them somewhere near the median level compairable to the average working family in this county. Once again saving MILLIONS. Here is my last idea (for the moment), lets give our troops in uniform a f***ing raise. Last time I checked those men and women are on the clock 24/7 in the sand box and not getting paid overtime or even a decent wage. Especially for all the stress and trauma they will end up going through.

 

I am done for now.

 

I love this idea. I bet the quality and price of healthcare would change pretty quickly. Actually the quality of healthcare would change for the better if people would stop going to the ED for every little goddamn thing. That and there were more general practitioners out there so you didn't have to wait 3 months to see a doc for something.

[PHANTASM]

I've been intensely studying the new bill, for obvious reasons. The health insurance companies will probably double their premiums next year when the 85:15 split is activated. Currently, the federal law requires that they spend 65% of all premiums on providing reimbursement for actual patient care. Next year it goes from 65% to 85%, meaning these companies will lose over half of their operating capitol. So, they would have to double the premiums they charge to customers just to have enough money to run the company at their current cost structure.

 

Medicare has reduced its payments to doctors and hospital by 21% this year, so health care providers will raise prices proportionally just to remain solvent. This will raise the prices charged to insurance companies, who are relied upon to pay more, to make up for the underpayment from Medicare. A lot of doctors refuse to accept Medicare patients anymore because they lose money treating them compared to people with actual insurance.

 

Take into account that everyone involved in healthcare will require more lawyers, more accountants and more lobbyists to deal with the new regulations, and it is possible the premiums could double or triple in the next couple of years.

 

So basically, no one will be able to afford private health care, and most businesses will choose to pay the new $2000/year fine per employee rather than buy the insurance. And we will go from 10% unemployment (officially lol) to 20% or more. It basically adds a $2000/year tax per employee to not pay for employee health insurance. Small businesses under 50 people will be excluded.

 

Wal-Mart and McDonald's have purchased exclusions to this employee insurance requirement (you thought only Republican took bribes?).

 

The federal bill authorizes the IRS to fine everyone in the US $675 per year if you do not purchase insurance. But that is not enough to make someone pay for insurance especially if they are not sick.

 

The insurance companies will not be able to prevent somone from purchasing insurance if they have a pre-existing condition (as they do now), so everyone will just wait until they get sick and then buy insurance at the last minute before they go to the doctor.

 

Add ten of millions of aging, unemployable, diabetic, obese baby boomers to this situation and we have a recipe for the collapse of the United States.

[NoGooD]

The federal bill authorizes the IRS to fine everyone in the US $675 per year if you do not purchase insurance. But that is not enough to make someone pay for insurance especially if they are not sick.

 

 

Hmm...that doesn't sound "free" to me. Intresting its the IRS that's fining people instead of some new government agency. I wonder how many IRS employees they'll need to hire in order to implement this. Still $675/yr is like a month or two of coverage for most plans for a single person.

 

What was it Pelosi said?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

[PHANTASM]

It's not defined legally as a tax. But if you don't pay it the IRS will hunt you down and put you in prison.

[TheDuck]

It's not defined legally as a tax. But if you don't pay it the IRS will hunt you down and put you in prison.

 

Last I heard the 'fine' is heading its way to the supreme court. I believe the argument is centered around the fact the governement cannot legislate people to buy a consumer item. Example would be that every adult has to buy a new GM car every 5 years. So the word 'fine' will end up being changed to 'tax'. We'll still end up with that ridiculous fine/tax. I feel very sorry for the people who do not have health insurance. What people aren't saying is that it costs 675/year per person in a household. A family of 5 will end up paying over 3000 dollars in just fines a year to not have health insurance.

[-Munch-]

I also think it's interesting that austerity measures are being enacted in France, Greece, Spain and now the latest is U.K. and we kind of take it on the chin. I for one am excited to see the rumblings of a 3rd party emerge because the dog and pony show has gone on for so long, we've lost control of it.