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Obama Care in the U.S.A.

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#1
Thor

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Hello all and I apologize for my lack of activity here. Recently I have been involved in much greater activities (finding a job, still looking, and also researching the new Health Care Bill). What i have found so far (actually reading a 2,000 + page legal document) has really scared the living day lights out of me and I would like to share some of the contents of this new piece of Legislation that has just recently passed into Law that will soon start affecting every American Citizen.

The following has come Directly from the new Health Care Bill with page and line numbers for easy reference:

  • Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.
  • Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!
  • Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!
  • Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
  • Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)
  • Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)
  • Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).
  • Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'
  • Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!
  • Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)
  • Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.
  • Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
  • Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)
  • Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.
  • Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.
  • Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)
  • Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)
  • Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
  • Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.
  • Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.
  • Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay. Like always)
  • Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)
  • Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that! A 'fee' instead)
  • Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)
  • Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)
  • Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)
  • Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

I do not wish to bring politics here to this clan or forums but I feel that everyone affected by this should have some idea of what is actually in it and how it will affect them personally. Therefore I will make no comment on my own personal political agendas and will leave this up to you to decide and form your own opinions.

~Thor!


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#2
JoeDirt

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If your "research" consists of copying and pasting a letter that has been posted on many republican forums well maybe your time would be better spent on something else. I just laugh at the republican party and people that support it. As a Canadian I do care about what goes on in the USA since #1 my employer is US based and #2 whatever happens down south always has some repercussions up here. But when a politician cannot even interpret a bill or tries to distort its true purpose you have a problem. Republicans need to get their head out of their ass and into the 21 century. http://www.snopes.co...pbox/frazer.asp

#3
Thor

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THE RECONCILIATION ACT OF 2010 - Volume 1

THE RECONCILIATION ACT OF 2010 - Volume 2

The link in my above response is the Reconciliation Act to H.R. 4872. The links posted here is the Bile H.R. 4872 in it's entirety.

@ Joe, I did not get my information from:

copying and pasting a letter that has been posted on many republican forums . . . http://www.snopes.co...pbox/frazer.asp


Read for your self what is in the Bill and make your own decision.

#4
Thor

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THE RECONCILIATION ACT OF 2010 - Volume 1

THE RECONCILIATION ACT OF 2010 - Volume 2

The link in my above response is the Reconciliation Act to H.R. 4872. The links posted here is the Bile H.R. 4872 in it's entirety.

@ Joe, I did not get my information from:

copying and pasting a letter that has been posted on many republican forums . . . http://www.snopes.co...pbox/frazer.asp


Read for your self what is in the Bill and make your own decision.

#5
fred

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joe sorry but you should have no say. canada is different from america (there is less curruption in canada because eskimos arent currupt lmoa jking) anyway obamacare is 100% bullshit why do SUCESSFULL PEOPLE have to pay for hobos. also it is different in america. where i live some people go to the er just to sleep their and not on the streets. oh and we pay for that (the sucessful people). imo they need to get rid of all goverment healthcare also get rid of social security. basically in simple terms you are giving ur money to a gang so they can decide what you want to buy with it. and yes the goverment is like a gang because of how much damn curruption there is. btw imma send hate mail to my congressman =]. 1 more thing. IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. the people that made this bill thinks nesasary and proper means goverment has complete control. the founding fathers believed that the only rights you had is life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. this is how they derived the other ammendments. i dont think any of that says that the goverment gets to decide if you live or die. also this is a free country that is turning socialist/communist :(

ps. obama got us in such a god damn debt that even in my lifetime it wont be repayed :(

#6
milli vanilli

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i love how people use the Socialism/anti-gov't angle. Sit back and realize how much of what we enjoy is directly because of the government.

#7
fred

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yes goverment needs to do some things. but healthcare isnt one of them. with healthcare they literally get to decide who lives and dies. that is WAY to much power.

#8
ultraman

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Amen to your last post fred!!!!!!!!

#9
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Blah! I hate this thing! It will ruin my chances of becoming a neurosurgeon! :(

#10
GlasShadow

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I'd like to add my own comment here,

Specifically to the Successful people comment and Hobo comment.

First of all as a resident of Michigan and as a "Former" UAW worker. Strictly saying that the successful people pay for the hobo, rubs me a bit raw. Secondly how do you judge an individuals worth, strictly by there income level. I feel that leaves way to much out, to get a true picture of the present economic situation. All things aside about the bill as I haven't read it a few things are clear from my perspective. I'm no hobo and in fact am enrolled in college, The most I've earned is around 40K a year, is that my worth, Ask my professors when i bring down a 4.0 and have a GPA of 3.8 what my worth to the government should be. Another note is I am a cancer survivor, from when I was 23, and thank god I had a job at the time and Insurance to pay for it. Now with no job and no Insurance, should I get sick, what do I do foot the 500,000 some odd price for a year of treatment and have no Income on top of that, or do i just lay down in a gutter and die. How many hard working Americans have lost there jobs and Insurance In the past 8 years, not to mention the streets full of empty houses that are foreclosed on been there too.

The home of the free my ass, more like the home of the indebted. Talk about tax, why the hell do I pay tax on Unemployment money , because I'm a bum. I think not and In fact I'm not even special Just one of Several Hundred Thousand in this state alone.

At this point any bill that help's low income is ok by me, walk a mile in those shoes' Work your butt and have your company tell you you no longer have a job, Then go home and tell your wife and kids that and watch as the Successful Vultures circle to feed on your financial carcass, before you so quick to judge socialism, which does not equal communism. Why don't they mention NAFTA these days? Why does the richest person in the world now live In mexico, just food for thought.

Edited by GlasShadow, 25 March 2010 - 07:03 PM.


#11
milli vanilli

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yes goverment needs to do some things. but healthcare isnt one of them. with healthcare they literally get to decide who lives and dies. that is WAY to much power.

if it means i can go to the doctor for the first time in over 5 years and not pay over $100 for a simple physical, i really don't care. the patriot act gave the government more power than this bill will, but you don't see me whining about it. if it means i can actually get a prescription for an anti-biotic for when I'm sick, and i don't have to miss more than a day of work(since i don't get paid sick days), i don't care. they say it will effect around 40 million people, i think its many more than that. i KNOW how many low income people work their asses off for this country doing the stuff that allows you to have your creature comforts and are denied insurance because they make less than $30k a year. I'm TIRED of a f***ing company being able to tell me IF i can even afford to go to the doctor.

and don't even preach the 'get a better job' argument to me. its baseless. there are MILLIONS of people who can't get a better job because they can't afford to take classes for a degree, or aren't cut out for college. those are the people who feed the water to your house. or the people who built your house. or the people who pave your roads. I'm a 24 year old in good health. i can get insurance that will cost LESS than $400 a month because i USED to smoke.

#12
milli vanilli

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At this point any bill that help's low income is ok by me, walk a mile in those shoes' Work your butt and have your company tell you you no longer have a job, Then go home and tell your wife and kids that and watch as the Successful Vultures circle to feed on your financial carcass, before you so quick to judge socialism, which does not equal communism. Why don't they mention NAFTA these days? Why does the richest person in the world now live In mexico, just food for thought.



Amen brother. Try living on $20k a year WITHOUT living with your parents. Then you'll see how hard it is to live. Its harder than hell to even THINK positive and try and change your circumstance when a new vehicle costs more than 65% of your yearly income. I'd like you to actually spend a week just living beside me and see what I'm "worth". GS is right. To judge a person by their income is stupid and lazy. This country has always been Socialist. Hell, mankind has always been Socialist. Just read a little history. The most successful peoples and civilizations were those that raised children as an entire 'village' and shared everything from crops to fighting skills. And learn the difference between Communism and Socialism. People are so damn lazy these days they live by what others tell them(just look at Rush Limbaugh's listeners...still waiting for that ignorant fat f***er to move to Canada or those that think Michael Moore is always 100% right) Thats one reason people don't like this bill. They refuse to do their own research and just listen to what some blowhard tells them is true and they take is as absolute fact.

#13
NoGooD

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An interesting read guys. I'm curious if anyone on these forums works in the health care field and has an opinion from that perspective?



@GlassShadow- Interesting that you bring up NAFTA. Did you side with the Unions and Perot's stance on NAFTA in 92, or did you change your mind at a later date?

Edited by NoGooD, 25 March 2010 - 10:07 PM.


#14
GlasShadow

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:rolleyes:

Edited by GlasShadow, 25 March 2010 - 11:45 PM.


#15
GlasShadow

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cant say I had much of an opinion then as I didn't graduate HS until 1995, but I now feel that unfair trade practices and an Imbalance of regulation between different countries are some major issues in today's economic climate, for example most businesses in the US have recycling programs and a wide multitude of other environmental concerns not to mention the usual benefit packages, none of which exists in other foreign countries. That basically equals cheap if not slave labor, and everyone loves that as long as it's not in the US, pollute Nigeria for Oil it's OK and poison children who burn old circuit boards for an ounce of tin etc. the list of recent atrocities could go on much longer and most people miss the big picture here, to say screw the poor hobo's and F'k socialism is by far ridiculous in the face of current social problems not just in the US but In the world as a whole.

To me it equals cheap labor, high profits, greed, that's the measure of success these days and grind the poor or less advantaged under your polished boots. Maybe its time for a bit of socialism, also empirical evidence supports the fact that the best way to stimulate the economy is to give the poor money.

I've taken some economic classes and am currently in one, my professor is a PhD from Notre Dame, which doesn't make me an expert by any stretch but I have gotten A's from her and learned quite a lot of interesting stuff .

I dont mean to draw the topic to much off the actual subject, like i said the actual bill may or may not be a good thing but at this point when people face losing homes, and no matter what some people think these are good hard working American families, people who's son's have fought and died for this country an people who's pride almost kills them to ask for help, anything at this point is a start! It's easy to say that when you have all your need's and some of your wants met.

All I know is it's a damn shame to see this country that i cherish and that my grandfathers fought for sink to that level of greed, where a persons worth is measured solely by their income. Have you truly been hungry, I have when i went through chemo for Hodgkin's I'd go a week without eating a thing, not because i had to, but because food made me sick, I can't imagine starvation in this day and age, go to a supermarket and look how much food is there and then say that it is right to keep that from children( just think of the stuff we toss every day like so much rubbish) personally I'd rather die. And I mean that with complete conviction, I've faced that at 23, sat there in the rain in September 2 weeks before my 23rd birthday with my mom holding my hand and felt bad for myself, now I laugh at how much of a fool I was. I learned the true meaning of empathy then, and my heart has bleed ever since so stay ignorant to the world around you. Life is an exercise in futility any way when taken from my perspective.

All this industry, manufacturing base, whats the point of all of it, Greed~

Ive been a union member, one of the more corrupt groups IMO, they watch as 700+ people are laid off and then raid the union dues paid in by those people with no thought to their families, I happens, I've seen people from United way vaporize at a plant meeting when they announce the plant closing! that was wonderful while the pres of UW flies to Paris for dinner, give me a break, where's my piece of the pie, tell that to my kids who freeze through the winter in Michigan because no one will help even though we qualify based not only on income but on the fact that I'm in a government sponsored retraining program, ever hear of SER, people In this country need to wake up and look past there own manicured front lawns, hopefully while this is still a free country.

People allow a snake like bush to draw us into a war with no winners and then cry because they have to foot the bill for his(and the general, * I'm by no means republican basing or siding with the Dem's) economic climate that the bureaucrats or as id say Aristocrats in Washington have put us in and then they piss and wine about helping the average man out, let alone children. Take a look at what that war cost us and say American children are worth less than that once, people support that on the one hand and turn a blind eye to the sufferings next door to them, It's unbelievable .

Well to all those successful people out there, pray that you stay that way, when its 8 degrees outside and your children cry don't call me for help. one day you may thank god for unemployment and food stamps no matter what your pride says.

I'm 2 classes away from an associates in web development and I like to think of my self as being fairly intelligent, despite my spelling and grammar which I blame on Dyslexia

all I know is when the wife asks if its ok to buy the kids an ice cream cone on a hot summer day, their smiles mean the world to me and I'd give every drop of my blood to see that simple joy on a child's face. And I'd gladly pay a bit of tax to ensure that, CEO's walk away with millions while children starve and I think that is just f***ed up.

Edited by GlasShadow, 26 March 2010 - 12:04 AM.





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