Rules/guidelines for rushing

[Connection]

anyone play lockout? it's a king-of-the-hill type map, where the obj is to capture and hold a flag at the center of the map.

 

the map is however 'broken' so that the winner is the team holding the flag at the last second of the map, irregardless of what went on during the rest of the time limit.

 

so..

 

i just sit AFK for the entire map and only play the last 10 seconds of it.

 

i understand the rule, and the reasoning, but the consequence is that 40% of the maptime is meaningless.

[ZetaG]

anyone play lockout? it's a king-of-the-hill type map, where the obj is to capture and hold a flag at the center of the map.

 

the map is however 'broken' so that the winner is the team holding the flag at the last second of the map, irregardless of what went on during the rest of the time limit.

 

so..

 

i just sit AFK for the entire map and only play the last 10 seconds of it.

 

i understand the rule, and the reasoning, but the consequence is that 40% of the maptime is meaningless.

 

If you need some sort of meaning to have fun, that's all fine and all. But some people don't need a meaning to have fun, and actually have it ruined when people pass maps very quickly.

 

But I disagree with you. The rule does not say that you cannot do objectives in the first 40%. It just states the you can not End the map in the interval. So no, the first 40% is not necessarily meaningless.

[jaie]

One thing that bothers me about the map-rush rule is that people think they dont have to defend at all and leave it to the admins to do the defending for them.. as in calling out against map rushers. Teams start to think since admins are there saying dont rush, that they do NOT even need to TRY and do any defense.

The team on attack is going to be trying to get ahead from the very start.. so you can see how this will become a potential FAIL.

 

What I would like to know is.. when should an admin jump in? I mean if the team is just blatantly NOT defending and someone decides to go for the objective.. why should it be up to the admins ( or spectator admins ) to BE the defense?

The 'XP will be reset' threat is useless because well.. Ive yet to see anyone have their XP reset because of a rush..so perhaps its just not being taken seriously at all.

 

Point is.. I dont WANT to keep stopping map rushers when a team on defense doesnt even try. Could use some advice here.

 

I think the punishment of rushing should be that the rusher gets forced to play on the defending team for 3 maps.

 

An admin should jump in a moment before the map ends.

 

It is up to the admin to be the defense to increase total welfare / enjoyment of the other players.

 

I also think the "XP will be reset" threat is useless, but because it does not solve the problem

 

The point of the rushing rule is to stop mash rushers when the team on defense does not even try.

If the team on defense was to try, then the map will more likely not be rushed.

 

hope this helps

[Connection]

I think the punishment of rushing should be that the rusher gets forced to play on the defending team for 3 maps.

 

i'm with you on that.

 

this is a big stereotype-generalization, but i think it has some merit:

the whole problem is that players who know the map best tend to play on the attacking team, and go for the objective, whereas players who just want to frag tend to play on the defending team, and camp ( spawn camping aside, you always know roughly where the attacking team is headed, but not so with a defending team. )

 

this is a big deal on 'new' maps that a lot of players may not be familiar with - people that know the map and the obj go for it and don't encounter much resistance from the players who don't know what to defend ( or don't care ). map ends quickly and noobs don't have time to learn the map. aforementioned noobs say "this map sucks" for obvious, often mistaken reasons.

 

IMO if we could just get more quality nazis on the servers it would do a lot to alleviate the issue.

 

 

@ zetag:

 

this is actually an objective based game. if you look in the limbo screen, there's a list of objectives. there are also frag maps, but that's not really what this thread is about. it's ppl who only want to camp and slaughter a bunch of predictably-moving allies, instead of playing the objectives that make the map rushing an issue.

 

map rushing isn't an issue on maps that require a bunch of events to take place before the map can be won -- like it's not really possible to 'rush' goldrush or venice, because two vehicles have to moved a distance - there's a lower limit on the shortest possible time it could take to win the map.

but say you plow through goldrush in 7-8 minutes. is it sportsmanlike to leave the truck 10 ft from the end of the map? let the game go on for 10+ minutes of allies SK the axis? after the truck passes 2nd barrier many axis players just sit afk in the spawn because there's really no point in going for the truck. granted, the least amount of time to win goldrush is pretty close to %40 of standard map time, but you get the point.

 

you just turn into a frag scenario with the defending team doing the camping instead.

 

why do ppl who don't care about the obj care that the map ends in under 5 minutes? because they can't get 50+ kills in short time, and the thing that makes the game fun to them is looking at their high kill death ratios and kill sprees.

 

so maybe map rotations should include more frag maps, with no objectives. set amount of time. let players who don't do objectives have their fun, and then play objective map after that. maybe fraggers won't be upset map ends quickly, because they get to play a non-objective map next in rotation.

 

but more likely, no matter what you do, someone will b***.

[ZetaG]

 

@ zetag:

 

this is actually an objective based game. if you look in the limbo screen, there's a list of objectives. there are also frag maps, but that's not really what this thread is about. it's ppl who only want to camp and slaughter a bunch of predictably-moving allies, instead of playing the objectives that make the map rushing an issue.

 

map rushing isn't an issue on maps that require a bunch of events to take place before the map can be won -- like it's not really possible to 'rush' goldrush or venice, because two vehicles have to moved a distance - there's a lower limit on the shortest possible time it could take to win the map.

but say you plow through goldrush in 7-8 minutes. is it sportsmanlike to leave the truck 10 ft from the end of the map? let the game go on for 10+ minutes of allies SK the axis? after the truck passes 2nd barrier many axis players just sit afk in the spawn because there's really no point in going for the truck. granted, the least amount of time to win goldrush is pretty close to %40 of standard map time, but you get the point.

 

you just turn into a frag scenario with the defending team doing the camping instead.

 

why do ppl who don't care about the obj care that the map ends in under 5 minutes? because they can't get 50+ kills in short time, and the thing that makes the game fun to them is looking at their high kill death ratios and kill sprees.

 

so maybe map rotations should include more frag maps, with no objectives. set amount of time. let players who don't do objectives have their fun, and then play objective map after that. maybe fraggers won't be upset map ends quickly, because they get to play a non-objective map next in rotation.

 

but more likely, no matter what you do, someone will b***.

 

"this is actually an objective based game."

 

Yes, this is an objective based game. But that I find, is an opportunity for rushers to take the moral high ground and defend their actions. Yes, it's an objective based game, but so what? People will still find their only source of enjoyment camping around and fragging, just as people enjoy doing the obj.

 

"it's ppl who only want to camp and slaughter a bunch of predictably-moving allies, instead of playing the objectives that make the map rushing an issue."

 

When a person sits next to the obj 2 minutes into a 30 minute map and is faced with the decision of planting or not, and he plants despite his knowing that he is playing on a 'fun' public server. The people who fly over the walls in oasis, or walljump in fuel dump. Why should someone have to stay back and sacrifice their fun waiting for one or two guys to come and possibly win the map under the limit anyway? People who want to play the objectives play on the hardcore server or a server with no rush rules. The rusher should understand, or are already aware that many people come to pubs to frag and nothing else, yet they rush anyway. It can be argued that these types of players make map rushing an issue.

 

"but say you plow through goldrush in 7-8 minutes. is it sportsmanlike to leave the truck 10 ft from the end of the map? let the game go on for 10+ minutes of allies SK the axis? after the truck passes 2nd barrier many axis players just sit afk in the spawn because there's really no point in going for the truck. granted, the least amount of time to win goldrush is pretty close to %40 of standard map time, but you get the point. "

 

This will happen when the teams are incredibly stacked. From experience, you have one team SK'ing the other and determining if the map gets rushed, or if it goes nowhere. Again, on a pub you have people on both teams who want to frag (granted, some certain people will switch teams or leave if they are getting pummeled). So how does the map get rushed again? By the people that are actually doing the obj. Again I stress that there's nothing wrong with liking the objective, but the point is that it becomes a problem when these people go gung-ho ending maps ASAP, and sometimes consistently, on a public 'fun' server that frowns upon it.

 

"why do ppl who don't care about the obj care that the map ends in under 5 minutes? because they can't get 50+ kills in short time, and the thing that makes the game fun to them is looking at their high kill death ratios and kill sprees."

 

Short answer is yes. But again, whats the problem with this? Why do people find it so amusing to end the map as fast as possible (opportunity to take high ground with obj game response)?

 

"but more likely, no matter what you do, someone will b***."

 

Absolutely...

 

 

phew... . No hard feeling intended from this post. Just trying to defend my point of view again. A good debate is never a bad thing right?

Edited August 7, 2010 by ZetaG

[=FlA=Incom!ng*]

To be honest I think leaving the truck is an insult to the defending team, they already know that the map is won, and to ask them to charge into certain death is just rude.

 

*my lil secret is I only go the back way on ALL maps, weather in defending or attacking. I know in my head that other players like to be sneaky, try this for yourself, you will be shocked as you kill the sneaky players ^^

[The teacher]

To be honest I think leaving the truck is an insult to the defending team, they already know that the map is won, and to ask them to charge into certain death is just rude.

 

Rude...yes

A lot of fun....as well

[dedz]

*my lil secret is I only go the back way on all map, weather in defending or attacking. I know in my head that other players like to be sneaky, try this for yourself, you will be shocked as you kill the sneaky players ^^

 

 

and resetting stats? :DDDD

 

 

a lot of people like to do the obj, a lot of people like to frag too. so basically just "team" up with the objective doing players and eventually you can win it. sometimes you'll rush it by accident too, but meh

.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Razz