Duckie Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The internet was designed to be free, and made available to anyone who wanted to use it. The fact that comcast rips off for about 100 bucks a month starts to contradict this idea, and even now the ideas of a "kill switch" are simply too much power for one man to make the call to kill. Think about it - facebook is valued at about 25 billion dollars alone. Google's probably a bit higher probably 30 billion+ (though I'm not sure of the correct figure for google, lets just say its a LOT). Should a man be able to disable these sites due to protests or whatever? Another approach to this might be, IF the government is trying to "kill" the internet, it will literally destroy the work of others to give them more power/order. Although the "order" might be arguably nice, you can't necessarily state that the means are justified. Where oh where in the constitution does it state that the government should have the ability to destroy the work of others. The only thing (I'm fairly sure) that it states about "destroying work" is that when the government gets too stupid to create good laws and enforce fair ideas for the people, the people have the authority to destroy their government: "That when any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to institute a new government." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristy Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 15-20 years ago this might've been okay. People would've been like, "Wtf is internet?" But no, this isn't 20 years ago. It's the modern world. The power of the internet cannot be underestimated. According to the World Internet Usage Statistics, there are approxiamately 2 billion internet users in world. That's two sevenths of the world's population, and it's fast growing. Egypt needs look around, and see that this resource holds enormous power. Why couldn't they just shut down remote areas, instead of the entire country? There are people who won't participate in the protest, and this act by the government will actually fuel the flames of more unrest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiThought Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The internet was designed to be free, and made available to anyone who wanted to use it. The fact that comcast rips off for about 100 bucks a month starts to contradict this idea, and even now the ideas of a "kill switch" are simply too much power for one man to make the call to kill. Think about it - facebook is valued at about 25 billion dollars alone. Google's probably a bit higher probably 30 billion+ (though I'm not sure of the correct figure for google, lets just say its a LOT). Should a man be able to disable these sites due to protests or whatever? Another approach to this might be, IF the government is trying to "kill" the internet, it will literally destroy the work of others to give them more power/order. Although the "order" might be arguably nice, you can't necessarily state that the means are justified. Where oh where in the constitution does it state that the government should have the ability to destroy the work of others. The only thing (I'm fairly sure) that it states about "destroying work" is that when the government gets too stupid to create good laws and enforce fair ideas for the people, the people have the authority to destroy their government: "That when any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to institute a new government." Finally someone gets it. Their government has taken a legitimate step to stay in power; however, them having to take that step has demonstrated the need for the government to be overthrown. As far as the USA is concerned I would go a step further and say it is not only our right but our responsibility to overthrow an unjust government and rightfully restore the power and freedom to the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHANTASM Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Relax. No one will shut off the internet in the US or Europe. I'll tell you why. It's not because they give a shiite about your freedom of speech. Shutting down the internet would shut down the options market. Trillions of dollars would be lost in a few hours. The stock market would drop 20%. It would look like Die Hard 4. Anyone who tried to shut down the internet in the US would be assassinated by some hedge fund manager who lost a billion dollars. It would be a race amongst dozens of paid assassins to see who could fulfill the contract. As for Egypt, Hosni Mubarak has been in power for thirty years because he keeps down the Islamic Brotherhood, one of the worst terrorist groups on Earth. Mubarak is an ally of the US, Israel, and most of Europe. He keeps Egypt from becoming Iraq. We should hope that there is something vaguely resembling a peaceful transition of power so they do not seize control of Egypt. Otherwise we could have another Iran, where Islamic terrorists seized control of a country that had been a US ally until 1979. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiThought Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Relax. No one will shut off the internet in the US or Europe. I'll tell you why. It's not because they give a shiite about your freedom of speech. Shutting down the internet would shut down the options market. Trillions of dollars would be lost in a few hours. The stock market would drop 20%. It would look like Die Hard 4. Anyone who tried to shut down the internet in the US would be assassinated by some hedge fund manager who lost a billion dollars. It would be a race amongst dozens of paid assassins to see who could fulfill the contract. As for Egypt, Hosni Mubarak has been in power for thirty years because he keeps down the Islamic Brotherhood, one of the worst terrorist groups on Earth. Mubarak is an ally of the US, Israel, and most of Europe. He keeps Egypt from becoming Iraq. We should hope that there is something vaguely resembling a peaceful transition of power so they do not seize control of Egypt. Otherwise we could have another Iran, where Islamic terrorists seized control of a country that had been a US ally until 1979. You really think our government is scared of a handful of assassins? Do you honestly believe that if our government was facing a chance that they would be overthrown they wouldn't try to stop communications? The simple fact that the government is hoping for an internet killswitch should be proof enough they would use it if sufficiently threatened. As far as taking down the Islamic Brotherhood, Mubarak is not the only person who could do so. If the people feel oppressed so far that they revolt it is obvious that the government at that point has lost sight of the people and see only themself. I hope that they take Mubarak's government down and pray the next person dislikes the IB as much or more than him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckie Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 You really think our government is scared of a handful of assassins? I thought he was saying that "someone" would pay him, which I think he's right, I could totally see that. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is "trying" to do that in Egypt. Whether it is a CEO of an online business or the gov't, I dunno if it was specified. As for Egypt, Hosni Mubarak has been in power for thirty years because he keeps down the Islamic Brotherhood, one of the worst terrorist groups on Earth. This is just a lame excuse, I'm sorry. The ends do NOT justify the means. So how does this make a difference? Going about "stopping protesting" by the means of turning off internet for ALL Egyptians is NOT justified. Why? I guarantee you that not all people who use the internet are in this stupid religious group you are mentioning. Go talk to the Egyptians. I'm sure they're not all in it. Why should they all have to suffer the consequences of OTHER morons who are hostile. That same thing could happen in the US, ever hear of wikileaks??? With this same logic, the US could justify shutting off the internet because wikileaks is revealing information that is "threatening the safety of the US or other nations". This is the same justification for turning off the internet in Egypt, as you said yourself. Public safety. If wikileaks or some other online organization started "harming public safety" (not that I actually think wikileaks does anything to harm us directly, but if they say it does), then I wouldn't be surprised if the US takes the same measure. Maybe you are from the US. I'm not sure why everyone from the US thinks they live in a special world separate from the rest. I don't think it is the fault of the US, I just think it is human nature, a general outlook on life. Nobody ever thinks that their home will get destroyed by the tornado/hurricane, but when it does, it will hit them. Nobody in the US thinks they will loose interwebs, but when they do, it will hit them harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomato Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Relax. No one will shut off the internet in the US or Europe. I'll tell you why. It's not because they give a shiite about your freedom of speech. Shutting down the internet would shut down the options market. Trillions of dollars would be lost in a few hours. The stock market would drop 20%. It would look like Die Hard 4. Anyone who tried to shut down the internet in the US would be assassinated by some hedge fund manager who lost a billion dollars. It would be a race amongst dozens of paid assassins to see who could fulfill the contract. As for Egypt, Hosni Mubarak has been in power for thirty years because he keeps down the Islamic Brotherhood, one of the worst terrorist groups on Earth. Mubarak is an ally of the US, Israel, and most of Europe. He keeps Egypt from becoming Iraq. We should hope that there is something vaguely resembling a peaceful transition of power so they do not seize control of Egypt. Otherwise we could have another Iran, where Islamic terrorists seized control of a country that had been a US ally until 1979. They definitely would. I could absolutely see our government cutting off the internet in a panic to try and hold together. The Egyptian protesters like neither Mubarak or the Islamic Brotherhood. The Islamic Brotherhood waited until the very last second to back the protests, which they now see as them just being opportunistic. They want a whole new government for their country. The Egyptian government also closed down the best news station that was covering the protests, Al Jazeera. They have had the absolute best coverage of the events in Egypt so far, and the government is trying to shut them down for it. They are also trying to cover up deaths by bullets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckie Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Tomato, that twitter account you found scares the crap out of me. That is so creepy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHANTASM Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The options market represents about 95-98% of all economic activity on Earth. It is completely dependent on high-speed internet service. If some bureaucrat from some acronym agency pulled an "off switch", the trillionaires would be quite upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHANTASM Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 So I just read Tomato's article: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/01/kill-switch-legislation/ and it's not about shutting down the internet, just sections of it if necessary to protect infrastructure. At least that's what the bill's sponsors are saying. Which is already legal given the powers already in place by the US government to respond to emergencies. Also, the bill is stuck in Congress and unlikely to be passed, and if it does pass it is unlikely to be used. Shutting down the internet would shut down the High-Frequency Trading (HFT) servers used by G oldman Sachs and many other companies to make millions of dollars every second buying and selling stocks and options. These servers have a ping of 5 milliseconds. They can send buy and sell orders 200 times each second. A stock goes up one tenth of a penny, it is sold, it goes down one tenth of a penny 1/100 of a second later, it is bought, over and over. Every major stock on the NYSE, the NASDAQ, the European exchanges, the Hang Seng, are all automated. G oldman Sachs was a major contributor to the O bama campaign. Do you think they will let the Savior shut down the internet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHANTASM Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 This is just a lame excuse, I'm sorry. The ends do NOT justify the means. So how does this make a difference? Going about "stopping protesting" by the means of turning off internet for ALL Egyptians is NOT justified. Why? I guarantee you that not all people who use the internet are in this stupid religious group you are mentioning. Go talk to the Egyptians. I'm sure they're not all in it. Why should they all have to suffer the consequences of OTHER morons who are hostile. That same thing could happen in the US, ever hear of wikileaks??? With this same logic, the US could justify shutting off the internet because wikileaks is revealing information that is "threatening the safety of the US or other nations". This is the same justification for turning off the internet in Egypt, as you said yourself. Public safety. If wikileaks or some other online organization started "harming public safety" (not that I actually think wikileaks does anything to harm us directly, but if they say it does), then I wouldn't be surprised if the US takes the same measure. Maybe you are from the US. I'm not sure why everyone from the US thinks they live in a special world separate from the rest. I don't think it is the fault of the US, I just think it is human nature, a general outlook on life. Nobody ever thinks that their home will get destroyed by the tornado/hurricane, but when it does, it will hit them. Nobody in the US thinks they will loose interwebs, but when they do, it will hit them harder. Don't underestimate the Islamic Brotherhood. They assassinated President Sadat, the guy who was in charge before Mubarak, because he made peace with Israel in the 1970s. Their terror campaign is one of the reasons why Egypt is in economic turmoil. They send suicide bombers and gunman to the Pyramids to scare off tourists. They attack anyone who tries to bring in foreign investment in Egypt. This is being done to impoverish the Egyptian people and government to create instability so they can seize control. They have been planning this for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauersaut Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 An expressive image I came across today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INDIAN** Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 nice way to protest hope some relief for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teo Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Those guys are really pissed off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Husa Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 This world is totally f***ed up, honestly i'm really starting to think about that 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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