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Mufasa

ET Server Suggestion Change Hardcore to Rotation

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Map voting once seemed like an awesome feature of silEnT mod to me, but the past year of playing on Hardcore has made me rethink it. There are two main problems:

 

1.) People vote the same ~10 maps over and over again. This is a very common complaint on hardcore, and the main problem that switching to a rotation would address. You can say it's because people enjoy those 10 maps most, and that's true -- but there are definitely more than 10 maps that these players would enjoy, even if that's to a lesser extent.

 

2.) When there are a low number of players on the server, maps that most players don't want to play are voted. In a given map, half the players don't vote, a quarter vote for the lesser of several evils, and a quarter vote for the map they want. With small numbers of players, this leads to maps that only one or two players actually want to play, such as =F|A= Base or Millennium Falcon.

 

If created properly, a rotation could solve both of these issues while creating minimal new problems. A sample rotation could be:

Quote

sw_oasis, adlernest, pirates_final, braundorf_b4, snatch3, frostbite, italy, sp_delivery_te, reactor_final, supply, erdenberg_t1, adlernest, decay_b5, missile_b3, tc_base, sw_goldrush_te, sp_delivery_te, bremen_b3, radar, beerrun_final, et_beach, caen2

 

The main problem I can foresee is that some of these maps aren't suitable when the server is full or when the server is nearly empty. However, in my experience this is largely not something players think about when voting anyway. There are many times with 4-5 players online that oasis is voted and many times with 28 players online that delivery is voted.

 

Does anyone have an opinion on whether this is a good idea, or potentially other ideas that could address the same issue?

Edited by Mufasa
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In my humble opinion, and please tell me if my thinking is wrong ... many of the Hardcore players are those who prefer ETpros maps, because the style of the server is very similar to ETPRO. I cant get any idea to valance the change of maps, because if they vote large map, many of them are disconnected, and it is a bit boring to play large maps with so few people.

Maybe the best idea I have is : 

Quit the Voting and put one map (More votting) and other where dont have much. For Example : 

1_Supply(More vots)

2_italy(Less vots)

3_adlernest

4_caen2

5_sp_delivery

6_erdenberg_t1

7_frostbite

8_radar

9_braundorf_b4

10_frostbite

etc...

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No map rotation.  HC has been strong and popular for years now with its config. Changing it would be crazy.

 

If people vote the same maps that's because the majority want those maps so majority wins.  If majority don't want to play a map they will disconnect and you'll be playing against bots. :)

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34 minutes ago, Chuckun said:

No map rotation.  HC has been strong and popular for years now with its config. Changing it would be crazy.

 

If people vote the same maps that's because the majority want those maps so majority wins.  If majority don't want to play a map they will disconnect and you'll be playing against bots. :)

The map that the majority of players want should be what's played, but that relies upon everyone actually voting. Very frequently, you end up with a plurality - and a small one at that.

 

Over a few weeks (only when I played, so definitely not a random sample), I found that it's closer to 30% of players who actually vote. You also frequently end up in a situation where many maps are being voted for and the winning map may be something that 90% of players don't want, but because votes are spread out so much, it's voted anyway (and the server clears out).

 

You're definitely correct that if we put maps on that the majority of players dislike, the server will be empty. That's not at all what I'm proposing. All of the maps I listed have been popular on hardcore at some point. They may not be everyone's first choice, but in my totally-unscientific estimation, I would say that less than 5% of hardcore players actually dislike the maps I suggested. Even if those 5% do dislike them, they would be voted at some point anyway.

 

The biggest impact I think this change would have is during "European times", from around 18 CET to 22 CET. Every time I try to play during those times, players start connecting and then something like =F|A=Base or Leningrad is voted and everyone disconnects.

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Map rotation is not a good idea, but it is definitely a good idea to remove maps like =F|A=Base or Millennium Falcon. Hardcore should not have maps that are playable on jaymod. On HC it does not work.
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Agree with Ed, the problem can be resolved by removing server-killer maps

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While discussion is on going, I have changed the map voting to 1 to make it more simpler. So lazy asses would vote during intermission.  For test purpose - u can only vote for 1 map and not 3 maps. Lets see how it works. If i recall - long time back we tested it.. all the way back to 2009, I think. After that we had implemented 3 options. 9 yrs appx down the lane, let's give it another shot from 3 to 1 for now. 

 

I am big fan for map voting but that's just me. 45 sec intermission is enough to vote for 3 maps for me. Let players decide what they want to play rather then we forcing them on what to play. Either way someone will always whine but I am open to testing for a week first and then some extension after it because for week, some would have expected the changes but they will grow tired or dislike and that's the time you might see real out come. Classic process that happens when you add new map which they ask for. 1 week is good but soon some realize, game play is jack shit and start complaining for it. That's my logic and observation. 

 

Open to changes for testing and looking forward for other's opinion and logic behind it. Please explain your logic when you post opinion because if their is no logic or substance behind opinion, then for me that opinion is just like saying, "Let's fly to mar's tomorrow and for sure, that will not happen." 

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It's been a while since I've tried to do something like this but it's gotta be possible to display a message after a map has ended right? Something like 'Please make sure to vote for the next map!' might help even if just a little. If not I guess you could have it as a banner on the server. I don't usually play on HC and haven't in a while so it could already be set up like this, if so nevermind 😛

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Just now, ElEl said:

It's been a while since I've tried to do something like this but it's gotta be possible to display a message after a map has ended right? Something like 'Please make sure to vote for the next map!' might help even if just a little. If not I guess you could have it as a banner on the server. I don't usually play on HC and haven't in a while so it could already be set up like this, if so nevermind 😛

This would help tbh. A lot of the time, I forget to vote until the last 5 seconds and by then its already too late.

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I must agree with CHUCKUN here .... we have a winning formula  on HC..... why change it ?

 

Gengis

Edited by Gengis
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7 hours ago, daredevil said:

While discussion is on going, I have changed the map voting to 1 to make it more simpler. So lazy asses would vote during intermission.  For test purpose - u can only vote for 1 map and not 3 maps. Lets see how it works. If i recall - long time back we tested it.. all the way back to 2009, I think. After that we had implemented 3 options. 9 yrs appx down the lane, let's give it another shot from 3 to 1 for now. 

 

I am big fan for map voting but that's just me. 45 sec intermission is enough to vote for 3 maps for me. Let players decide what they want to play rather then we forcing them on what to play. Either way someone will always whine but I am open to testing for a week first and then some extension after it because for week, some would have expected the changes but they will grow tired or dislike and that's the time you might see real out come. Classic process that happens when you add new map which they ask for. 1 week is good but soon some realize, game play is jack shit and start complaining for it. That's my logic and observation. 

 

Open to changes for testing and looking forward for other's opinion and logic behind it. Please explain your logic when you post opinion because if their is no logic or substance behind opinion, then for me that opinion is just like saying, "Let's fly to mar's tomorrow and for sure, that will not happen." 

 

I don't think chaging from 3 votes to 1 matters a lot. You hardly ever see someone use his 2nd and 3rd vote because in the end every time it comes down to 2 (sometimes 3) maps that get all the votes and people will just change their first vote to those.

 

If you wanna do something interesting with vites you could either make the votes invisible for eachother until the map loads or make people unable to change their votes. (Might not be possible to do either of this)

 

All in all a rotation really is not a bad idea. You could just use the popular maps 2-3 times in 1 rotation to let them appear more frequently but force the players to play a "rare map" every once in a while.

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i think, the ppl that doesnt like the same maps can go to Silent, or Jay servers where they can play others maps and i agree with ED. 

 

elcab.

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I like Destiny's idea of forcing a rare map.  Once every 10 maps or so force the map that hasn't been played in the longest time.  Sometimes I see maps that haven't been played in 100+ rounds.  Yes, people like certain maps so those other ones don't get played, but nobody can get to like them if we don't play them.  

 

And on the rare occasion we do play a different one I usually have no clue where to go, what to do, where I'm getting shot from, because we never get to play it.  

 

Just my two cents.

 

---edit---

People will still vote on maps the other 9 times, just that 10th match we can force the rare.  Obviously it would change each time because it would be recently played 10 maps ago.  It would allow people to choose what they want 90% of the time.  Just not that 1.  And there's a reason those maps are set on the server.  Someone at one point wanted to play those maps.  It would give each map a fair chance to be played.

 

Edited by JohnnyColorado
had 1 more cent to throw in :)
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19 hours ago, daredevil said:

While discussion is on going, I have changed the map voting to 1 to make it more simpler. So lazy asses would vote during intermission.  For test purpose - u can only vote for 1 map and not 3 maps. Lets see how it works. If i recall - long time back we tested it.. all the way back to 2009, I think. After that we had implemented 3 options. 9 yrs appx down the lane, let's give it another shot from 3 to 1 for now. 

 

I am big fan for map voting but that's just me. 45 sec intermission is enough to vote for 3 maps for me. Let players decide what they want to play rather then we forcing them on what to play. Either way someone will always whine but I am open to testing for a week first and then some extension after it because for week, some would have expected the changes but they will grow tired or dislike and that's the time you might see real out come. Classic process that happens when you add new map which they ask for. 1 week is good but soon some realize, game play is jack shit and start complaining for it. That's my logic and observation. 

 

Open to changes for testing and looking forward for other's opinion and logic behind it. Please explain your logic when you post opinion because if their is no logic or substance behind opinion, then for me that opinion is just like saying, "Let's fly to mar's tomorrow and for sure, that will not happen." 

 

Off topic,

Why is silent1 intermission lower than hardcore?

when i visit hardcore i always notice the wait is longer and thus i never forget to vote map.

on silent1 its easy to forget to vote.

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31 minutes ago, JohnnyColorado said:

Sometimes I see maps that haven't been played in 100+ rounds.

To be clear though, I'm actually not talking about those maps that are only played every 100 maps. There are maps played every 10 maps - adlernest, delivery, supply, frostbite, etc. Then there are maps only played every 30 maps - oasis, reactor, caen, base. What my rotation would do is still very frequently play all of the super-popular maps like adler/deli/frost, but increase the number of times a map like oasis/reactor/base is played to, say, every 20.

Edited by Mufasa
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