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Fck Charlie. ( just a little rant)

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#16
Platonic

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Loads of truth in this topic but until now only Lucky understood my actual point.

 

I don't care who gets money from disaster, who we mourn about and who we dont. Hell its not even about terrorism or war. What bothers me is (in my eyes) a major default in humankind.

 

To comprehend the highly complex world we have alot of unconcious processes running to recognize things and make conclusions without having to think about it into the smallest detail.

 

One of these processes is that we copy others. When we walk a huge crowd we are able to flow without bumping into eachother. This is fcking brilliant and god, allah or whoever is in charge designed this like a pro.

 

However i think people became lazy because of this process and we copy more and more and stop thinking for ourselves. And not just in news.

 

For instance; a few years ago i was in La Louvre and i got in the room with the mona lisa. I was shocked with what i saw because there were hundreds of people lined up to make pictures of the mona lisa. Just because this is a famous painting everyone wanted a picture or look at it while having their back turned to an incredibly beatifull 10 meter wide painting called "The Wedding Feast at Cana" that dindt get any attention from the horde of people in the room.

 

And don't get me wrong as a consumer behaviourist i earn my money by exploiting this stupid unconcious part of the mind.

 

I'm not mad i'm just highly dissappointed when i see this slavelike behaviour from the vast majority of a brilliant species called mankind.

 

And guys you are my friends so if u don't mind I like to show my emotions when i feel like it.

Don't worry, I understood exactly what you meant. The reason why I didn't agree with you, is because you come with this in relation to this topic, while many people did think about this matter pretty thoroughly. At the same time people are cheering at Lady Gaga and eating McDonalds hamburgers.

I think mourning about the dead is one of the better things this lazy mob has brought us.

 

About expressing emotions: of course. I was just afraid of some highly political comments and a nice amount of racism, but all goes well for now :)




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#17
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I agree, however I do think that it has pretty much always been like this. I think we realize it more now because of the internet.

And perhaps i begin to see it now because im becoming mature and to think about stuff  :>



#18
Ann![email protected]

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Well.. I abstained to do any comment about it, either on FB or elsewhere. Why?!? Simply because there's too much things annoying me in all this and see too much crap here and there from some french people..

 

 

-first, because I'm sensitive at every death.. I would like to see our medias covering every dramas around the world the same way they do with our own, people meeting in a protest march each time there's a drama all around the world, and politicians don't show their nose and tears only when there's elections coming soon or use such a drama to make forgetting it is a social issue first before to be a religion problem (so, also their responsablity).

 

-secondly, put aside the dramatic deaths, freedom of expressoin in our country was also the target of this attack. The prob is that I would like to see this freedom defended in any case whatever the person and not something functioning only in some cases.

 

-thirdly, some people tends to misuse the freedom of expression.. I would like also that some in my country remember than the freedom of some stops where starts those of others. Some call this "respect". Even if, of course, nothing can justify to die like that.

 

-since these attacks, I have the feeling than some people and\or media use these events to unleash the hate towards some other people whom never asked for that. And this simply because, they more or less share the same religion. This consensus and this dictatoreship of the well thinking from some is just disgusting. Some sort of you're with us or against. They even asked\wait for apologize or to disapprove of these attacks from french muslims.

 

-So on..

 

From my side, I'm not in such way to think nor against anyone. I think by my own and I don't need anybody to know what or who is bad. I'm sad for these people dead, but also angry against a lot of things whom followed. But, for some people, the hate get the upper hand, while for my part it's an exasperation in seeing all this mess from all parts.

 

 

I'm proud to be french, but now I would like to be also proud of a real cleverness, a real fairness and a real freedom in my own country. Not see the whole sheeps following a bunch of disguised wolfs. Now we are even not allowed to express such an opinion anymore, at the risk to get 1 year in jail and a fine.


Edited by Ann![email protected], 13 January 2015 - 09:07 AM.


#19
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-first, because I'm sensitive at every death.. I would like to see our medias covering every dramas around the world the same way they do with our own, people meeting in a protest march each time there's a drama all around the world, and politicians don't show their nose and tears only when there's elections coming soon or use such a drama to make forgetting it is a social issue first before to be a religion problem (so, also their responsablity).

I'm glad so many people agree on this.



#20
AnG3L

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In all cases; this is even talk here.
It's a good thing to share opinions and different visions of things.
Reality becomes truly mature :eek

 

Here begins the freedom of expression.



#21
gibson66

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I think there's a deeper issue being missed here.

 

When most people say they support/sympathize with those who have died in the attack, they don't particularly care about the Charlie Hepdo incident. What they're saying is that they are sick of the bullying and coercion from terrorists. The 17 dead are just a opportunity for expressing frustration towards the past decade(s) of violent, religious radicalism and terrorism.

 

The reason they don't sympathize as much with the Nigerians killed by Boko Haram is because (at least in America) they are different (culturally, economically, etc.). The reason the death of 17 people in France has more impact on us is because the French are far closer to us in terms of culture. It's scary because they are like us, to put it simply. Mind you, this isn't active racism. It's tribalism. Humans naturally gravitate more towards those who share similarities. Is it ignorant? Absolutely. But 'm not convinced that it's direct, overt racism.

 

Personally, I haven't made my mind up on whether or not the Charlie Hepdo thing reaction is sincere or not. 



#22
Ann![email protected]

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I think there's a deeper issue being missed here.

 

When most people say they support/sympathize with those who have died in the attack, they don't particularly care about the Charlie Hepdo incident. What they're saying is that they are sick of the bullying and coercion from terrorists. The 17 dead are just a opportunity for expressing frustration towards the past decade(s) of violent, religious radicalism and terrorism.

The issue comes from the mix than some do between terrorism and religion. Christianity has also his own radicalism (http://en.wikipedia....stian_terrorism), like all religions and since much more time (http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm). Should we accept to say than all Christians are terrorist or tell the truth and explain it was acts or decisions only from an elite or small groups. Sorry but I will not justify such acts by the same acts. Those who say the opposite are mostly or looking for this famous "War of worlds" fed by the most basic of hates or ignorant.

 

 

The reason they don't sympathize as much with the Nigerians killed by Boko Haram is because (at least in America) they are different (culturally, economically, etc.). The reason the death of 17 people in France has more impact on us is because the French are far closer to us in terms of culture. It's scary because they are like us, to put it simply. Mind you, this isn't active racism. It's tribalism. Humans naturally gravitate more towards those who share similarities. Is it ignorant? Absolutely. But 'm not convinced that it's direct, overt racism.

Tribalism is based first on the protection that a leader or an uniting can bring to a group. Then a culture grows from this tribalism and changes with time. At this time of the globalisation it's even more false. Nowadays, remains only the difference between religions, languages, and aspect. Up to you to give importance to that or not. For my part, I don't, will never do, and think there's no difference. At part if there's a will to grant it, despite that these differences are not separator. People who think they're not concerned whatever the reasons are just wrong. And select, is even worse.



#23
gibson66

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The issue comes from the mix than some do between terrorism and religion. Christianity has also his own radicalism (http://en.wikipedia....stian_terrorism), like all religions and since much more time (http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm). Should we accept to say than all Christians are terrorist or tell the truth and explain it was acts or decisions only from an elite or small groups. Sorry but I will not justify such acts by the same acts. Those who say the opposite are mostly or looking for this famous "War of worlds" fed by the most basic of hates or ignorant.

 

 

Tribalism is based first on the protection that a leader or an uniting can bring to a group. Then a culture grows from this tribalism and changes with time. At this time of the globalisation it's even more false. Nowadays, remains only the difference between religions, languages, and aspect. Up to you to give importance to that or not. For my part, I don't, will never do, and think there's no difference. At part if there's a will to grant it, despite that these differences are not separator. People who think they're not concerned whatever the reasons are just wrong. And select, is even worse.

EDIT: removed previous comment. I have no interest in arguing about this subject or defending my original comment.


Edited by melgibson, 13 January 2015 - 11:10 AM.


#24
Ann![email protected]

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At no point did I state that Christianity was innocent. I openly acknowledge that they have a history of terrible violence at the state and terrorist level. You straw-manned me.

And at no point I said it was guilty. Just that terrorism is the reflect of some personalities and not of a religion. Show some sympathy to innocent people also suffering because associated to these acts, doesn't mean that we don't care about the first victims in Charlie Hebdo.

 

 

Sorry but I still have some difficulties when you say xenophobia is inherent..

 

 

Anyway, we went off topic here. And broach this subject is quite sensitive. Especially since we both have our own opinion. Best, to stay in the main topic. 



#25
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And at no point I said it was guilty. Just that terrorism is the reflect of some personalities and not of a religion. Show some sympathy to innocent people also suffering because associated to these acts, doesn't mean that we don't care about the first victims in Charlie Hebdo.

 

 

Sorry but I still have some difficulties when you say xenophobia is inherent..

 

 

Anyway, we went off topic here. And broach this subject is quite sensitive. Especially since we both have our own opinion. Best, to stay in the main topic. 

My pride gets the better of me and I have to respond...

 

At no point did I say that this was a result of Islam being an inherently violent religion. I stated that the public (again, I'm not voicing my own opinion, but verbalizing the thoughts of the proletariat) was frustrated with "religious radicalism" (my exact words). Radicalism implies taking something (in this instance Islam) beyond what is considered by most normal or acceptable. This is (in this case) the actions of a few, NOT the actions of a majority. 

 

I really can't tell if you're disagreeing with what I've stated due to a misconception/misinterpretation of what I've said or you are just elaborating on what I've expressed and I'm misinterpreting what you're saying as argumentative. 



#26
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heavy topic and varied opinions on an emotional level. im still not sure if Reallity's main point was truly grasped.

 

time for a group hug.



#27
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What about the people in Nigeria that died, not many people have stood up for that comparing to Paris.



#28
Reallity

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What about the people in Nigeria that died, not many people have stood up for that comparing to Paris.

Lol read first before you post mate.



#29
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Too much reading :P Was skimming through it and didn't notice :P

 

Apologies :D



#30
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I am not Charlie Hebdo nor will I ever be.
At the beggining I should mention that no verbal aggression should cause murder.
Do you really want to support something that mocks religions etc. in dusguisting talk of hate in their cellophane "art".
What about all those people in Nigeria that died that Reality mentioned in his first post, what about all those stupid racist police shootings, not much people really stood up for that except some people in America.
We are all Charlie? Oh please, i don't even dare to say that. I could never be a part of something that hateful minded towards innocent people. Come on, try to watch few of those disgusting caricatures and don't mind them.
Je ne suis pas Charlie.




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