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#1
PHANTASM

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So, I'm trying to adjust to Socialism in the US. The last two years have been incredibly hard for people like me.

I'm learning how to live in debt, which is new to me, and it's weird because you start to see new debt as income. It's like some kind of inverted reality where you are rich because you have unlimited credit, not because you have any money in the bank.

While unemployed last year I learned how to look for government aid. It was very weird being dependent on the government and felt wrong.

I still have this fantasy that the US is going to turn things around somehow. I guess growing up under Reagan I developed a belief system that my country can do anything and fix any problem and defeat any enemy. I know that's silly but that was the 80s.

How do you guys and gals in Europe live with this?


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#2
daredevil

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It's all personal belief. Country doesn't put you in debt. It's all about how you use money and do planning. Sure there are bad times but thats why you save little bit in your good times rather then spending like crazy when you are on good time.

Ex: My neighbors as 4 kids and they are saying it's costly to raise the kids. They should have calculated the expense before making babies each 2 years.

Planning is everything. US failed in planning and hence faced consequences. If you are going to spend more then your budget no wonder you will be in debt.

There are credit cards to support you in your bad times. But now a days people use credit card to live happily without any income. After few yeas there comes time to pay bill and everything goes bad.

People don't like to accept the reality and still want to live in there dreams and thats where the issue rises. I used to take launch and dinner outside every day in 2007, not anymore.

#3
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ohh man,have you ever heard about greece's economy?we are in huge debt,and our politicians are still trying to find ways to eat our money.in some years half greece will be chinese and pakistan ppl,and every greek gonna go on other countrys.as for jobs,same shit,1000000 greeks unemployed(when i say greeks i mean only greeks!),hope my father will find a job next year :@
p.s as dare said,its all about planing,be careful

#4
ZeeKoh

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It's true that planning is like 95% of the issue. But there are unforeseen costs and deductions always being brought up here in America. New tax rates or, for instance, this new health care bill where everyone has to take their hard earned money and get health insurance from a third party. While I agree that everyone should have health insurance, I don't agree that they should be forced into spending their own money on it. Things like this are happening all the time in American society. Things that are more or less illegal and unconstitutional. Not only is it wrong, but it's also against our own laws for the government to claim taxes from a worker's paycheck. It's 100% illegal for them to collect taxes on anything outside of corporate/business dealings, but that doesn't stop the government from collecting either, or raising tax percentages when they start spending too much of our money.

Another thing I've noticed here in America lately, are shady business dealings. Take my former ISP for instance, Charter Communications, they've gone bankrupt even though they have a monopoly on cable TV/Internet/Phone around here. Maybe close to, or more than, 100,000 people are paying for their service, monthly, and somehow they went bankrupt. Now, they actually have a ton of hefty, hidden charges. Because of their own employees, they were saying I didn't pay my $250 cable bill one month, so I had them shut it off. I returned the equipment and everything was fine until a few days ago. I received a notice saying I owe them over $600 now. For what? I have absolutely no idea. But I'll be damned if they're getting any money out of me. I know other people this has happened to as well. Everyone's out to steal your money these days, so it makes planning for rough times all the more difficult.

#5
PHANTASM

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I found out from my manager that the real reason we are having a mass layoff at my company (a major US corporation) is that they don't want to comply with the new healthcare bill in the US, so they want to reduce all unnecessary headcount. They will re-hire people as temps through an outside agency next year to avoid the expense of this law. The new bill requires all businesses to provide free health benefits to all their employees. I currently purchase private health insurance since my job did not offer it.

The US government is not providing free health insurance with this bill. Instead the bill requires all businesses to provide it. It's a gift to the health insurance industry disguised as progressive Socialism. This will crush economic growth in the US. I sometimes wonder if this was intentional or just due to stupidity.

If we are going to be Socialist, we should study the Cuban model for health care. They seem pretty good at redistributing very limited health care resources.

#6
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US health system is over rated.

The overall price for Medicare is just to high. Medicine, Dr. fees, etc. is always over priced.

200$ one time fee for visiting my Dr. Next visit, again 200$. Insurance pays it but then how insurance coverts it? Increases premium.

There should be law. Every Dr. is supposed to be charge same fee unless he runs his own office.

#7
AntiThought

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There should be law. Every Dr. is supposed to be charge same fee unless he runs his own office.


+1 if it would work. The reason I suspect it would not is the same reason we are in this situation to begin with and that is the fundamental nature of human thought- Greed.

If doctor's had fee caps many would follow the money and go to private practice. The most important lesson I have learned is to never underestimate human greed.

#8
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Doctors, insurance companies, and drugs/medicine cost too much in the U.S. Greedy bastards rip off those in need.

Health care is good idea, but if we want to succeed above has to go and military spending has to go. The Tea party (Republicans) always say "cut the deficit" but they don't mention what to cut.

P.S. Sorry to those who are Republicans and hate the Tea party.

Not all Republicans are in the Tea Party but all in the Tea Party are Republicans.

#9
Butterz

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Doctors, insurance companies, and drugs/medicine cost too much in the U.S. Greedy bastards rip off those in need.

Health care is good idea, but if we want to succeed above has to go and military spending has to go. The Tea party (Republicans) always say "cut the deficit" but they don't mention what to cut.

P.S. Sorry to those who are Republicans and hate the Tea party.

Not all Republicans are in the Tea Party but all in the Tea Party are Republicans.


http://www.cracked.c...party-movement/

For sure military spending has to be cut. The wars the US is currently in are unsustainable, and seems like an unnecessary drain on the budget.

In my opinion, the health fund providers should never have been allowed to become "for profit" as this just means that the people at the top are thinking about money. Instead, the best would be a health fund for people to pool their money into, wages get paid to the employees of the fund, but no money goes to shareholders, and all of the other useless people who expect money.

#10
-Munch-

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+1 if it would work. The reason I suspect it would not is the same reason we are in this situation to begin with and that is the fundamental nature of human thought- Greed.

If doctor's had fee caps many would follow the money and go to private practice. The most important lesson I have learned is to never underestimate human greed.


Just to chime in on this thought, my dad is a doctor and over 50% of his bill goes to insurance instantly, the rest is paid out as the procedures are approved by the insurance company. Only co-pays and things are done in person and even those are getting higher. The strange part is that most people thought this restructuring would have an overall positive effect on the health care system. When the bill stated that insurance companies could no longer deny covering children because of preexisting conditions, the insurance companies dropped all child coverage! And the tax increase to cover that change is still going into action.

The old saying for me is true, follow the money. When you see headlines like this $600 million spent to influence health care debate it doesn't really surprise me.

source
CNN Money

Edited by -Munch-, 08 November 2010 - 10:10 PM.


#11
NoGooD

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US health system is over rated. The overall price for Medicare is just to high. Medicine, Dr. fees, etc. is always over priced. 200$ one time fee for visiting my Dr. Next visit, again 200$. Insurance pays it but then how insurance coverts it? Increases premium. There should be law. Every Dr. is supposed to be charge same fee unless he runs his own office.


There is far to much going on in the healthcare system for this to be put in such a generalized statement. Granted if there was to be one law to be put into effect, it should be for the banning of frivolous lawsuits and fees against medical professionals and or institutions. I've seen patients threating and badger doctors with bullshit lawsuits and accusations of HIPPA violations that force some docs to make decisions based on covering their ass instead of doing the right thing. In fact from my limited experience in the medical field, many docs/PA's make decisions from a "cover your ass" standpoint that efficient medicine. If you miss a symptom either due to patient omission or oversight there is a chance the doctor could be held liable. The HIPPA fines alone are enough to make most hospitals piss their pants in fear. http://www.ama-assn....forcement.shtml


+1 if it would work. The reason I suspect it would not is the same reason we are in this situation to begin with and that is the fundamental nature of human thought- Greed.If doctor's had fee caps many would follow the money and go to private practice. The most important lesson I have learned is to never underestimate human greed.


The statement would have been better said if you started off with your last sentence. In a way doctors do have fee caps..it's called general practice. This is one of the reasons why so many new docs go into a specialty instead of being a GP (general practitioner). GP's don't make shit and have high overhead and higher level of bring sued and losing, where as a specialist typically has less overhead, fewer direct employees (typically the employees are paid by the institution) and less chance of successfully being held liable during litigation. It's hard to argue with someone who is a "specialist" in their field. From what I've seen it's usually GP's getting screwed by lawyers using a specialist in testimony. This is also another reason why people have to wait months to get a checkup....noone wants to be a GP anymore. They want to go where the money is.


Doctors, insurance companies, and drugs/medicine cost too much in the U.S. Greedy bastards rip off those in need.Health care is good idea, but if we want to succeed above has to go and military spending has to go. The Tea party (Republicans) always say "cut the deficit" but they don't mention what to cut.P.S. Sorry to those who are Republicans and hate the Tea party.Not all Republicans are in the Tea Party but all in the Tea Party are Republicans.


While i have respect for most of the things you say Click, your way the f*** off base with this. I actually attended a Tea Party rally that was close to my home over the course of the summer. I honestly didn't know wtf to expect. I was surprised to find people all sides of the political spectrum there. True there were probably mostly Repubs, but alot of the people I spoke with dropped their party orientation in favor of being independent because they're sick of the government screwing shit up, passing laws behind peoples back and generally interfering with the lives of American citizens while stating it's all "for their own good". I dropped my party orientation a number of years ago simply because I couldn't tell who was in which party because they were both screwing the public bigtime, then pointing fingers and saying it's the other guys fault the US was having problems.

Same turds with different names still smell like shit.


Overall I don't consider myself a "tea-party" member, but it's apparent alot of their ideals are in line with mine...and I'm not a republican.

http://www.cracked.com/funny-6539-the-tea-party-movement/For sure military spending has to be cut. The wars the US is currently in are unsustainable, and seems like an unnecessary drain on the budget. In my opinion, the health fund providers should never have been allowed to become "for profit" as this just means that the people at the top are thinking about money. Instead, the best would be a health fund for people to pool their money into, wages get paid to the employees of the fund, but no money goes to shareholders, and all of the other useless people who expect money.


Interesting ideals coming from an Aussie. I have to agree...we're paying to much money to protect national and foreign interests. It's our own laws that are screwing us over IMO.

The idea your talking about of a health fund pool had been tried on a slightly different scale I believe. There were a couple of health insurance funds out there where you could pay into your own health insurance, essentially an account for you to use to pay for healthcare. The more you paid into the account, the more you could see the doctor or save up for a visit. I've also heard of other examples where the funds were larger, and say you could pay and additional $X dollars a month in case of emergency care was needed whereas your regular account would be used to pay for general checkups, etc.


Just to chime in on this thought, my dad is a doctor and over 50% of his bill goes to insurance instantly, the rest is paid out as the procedures are approved by the insurance company. Only co-pays and things are done in person and even those are getting higher. The strange part is that most people thought this restructuring would have an overall positive effect on the health care system. When the bill stated that insurance companies could no longer deny covering children because of preexisting conditions, the insurance companies dropped all child coverage! And the tax increase to cover that change is still going into action.The old saying for me is true, follow the money. When you see headlines like this $600 million spent to influence health care debate it doesn't really surprise me.sourceCNN Money



I"d be damn curious to hear how many cents on the dollar he makes. From speaking with docs I hear it's around 15-30c/dollar depending on a number of factors. It also explained to me why some of the best docs I know drive old beater cars and live in modest homes. Of course then there are those that have 3-4 divorces under their belt and b*** ex-wives sucking them dry...and not in a good way.

#12
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US health system is over rated.

The overall price for Medicare is just to high. Medicine, Dr. fees, etc. is always over priced.

200$ one time fee for visiting my Dr. Next visit, again 200$. Insurance pays it but then how insurance coverts it? Increases premium.

There should be law. Every Dr. is supposed to be charge same fee unless he runs his own office.


In Canada its FREEEEE (not really we all pay taxes =P). But everyone has it.

#13
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In Canada its FREEEEE (not really we all pay taxes =P). But everyone has it.

lol but in Canada we have our own problems with health care too, not enough doctors or nurses, long line ups for stuff thats labeled urgent etc. etc.... but yes when I'm rushed to the hospital its free :D <3 lol

#14
<Jose>

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So, I'm trying to adjust to Socialism in the US. The last two years have been incredibly hard for people like me.

I'm learning how to live in debt, which is new to me, and it's weird because you start to see new debt as income. It's like some kind of inverted reality where you are rich because you have unlimited credit, not because you have any money in the bank.

While unemployed last year I learned how to look for government aid. It was very weird being dependent on the government and felt wrong.

I still have this fantasy that the US is going to turn things around somehow. I guess growing up under Reagan I developed a belief system that my country can do anything and fix any problem and defeat any enemy. I know that's silly but that was the 80s.

How do you guys and gals in Europe live with this?



Back to the original question :lol: I live in london and we have also had a rise in unemployment, in vertualyl all fields of work. Althought i have to say at the same time that all the people that i know that have been affected by crisis have had the hours they work cut, and so they still have jobs. although i havent directly been affected yet, i will be going to university next year and as a result of the economy and the goverments spending cuts and funding for higher education, the universities funding is being cut and to conpensate for this universities are increasing the yearly fess. currently the fee for this year is £3,290 where as some universities will be charging up to £7000. This is definiterly not good for me especially since i will need a student loan to pay the fees off.

As soem f you know i am portuguese and portugal has definiterly not been handing the economic crisis as well as england. I know several people in portugal that have been hardly hit by the recession and now the goverment is planning a further increase in taxes to 23%

#15
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In Canada its FREEEEE (not really we all pay taxes =P). But everyone has it.


lol but in Canada we have our own problems with health care too, not enough doctors or nurses, long line ups for stuff thats labeled urgent etc. etc.... but yes when I'm rushed to the hospital its free :D <3 lol


Just curious if either one of you knows someone that works in the healthcare industry in Canada. Like a Nurse/MD/RT/EMT. I'm curious to see what the level of pay is compared to those in the US. The price difference of Healthcare in Canada vs. US is astounding. I still haven't seen anyone attribute it to any certain group of factors.




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