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Burn a Koran Day

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#16
AntiThought

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Blokes a tube, freedom of speech is one thing but to me this is incitement to racial/religious hatred and just playing into the hands of the extremist recruiters.


My sentiments exactly. Don't know how he is justifying this to himself.


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#17
Handzz

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Is he breaking the law, that is undetermined.

Is it in the best interest of our Country - no.

The problem is we give him the time of day and the platform (TV News trucks - on air interviews) to carry out this stupidity, and that makes us all guilty.

Our world/country's history are full of people who distort faith for their own personal gain, he is just another.

The really sad part is some GI manning a post oversees is going to get horribly killed in response to this stupidity, and that is what pisses me off.

#18
Malokyte

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See, the thing is he techincally IS breaking the law. He's commiting an obvious hate crime and nobody does anything about it because of the massive Christian hardon that's gripping the nation. Also the man is probably a racist.

Let me state why this is so:

1) If I were to go around lighting black people's houses on fire, that would be racist, and a hate crime. This is no different, except instead of burning houses I'm burning religious material, which could be deemed even more insulting. I know perfectly well that if I started publicaly burning Bibles, the legal system would try to shove the book so far up my ass that I'd have trouble sitting. In almost every other country the man would have been arrested the second the first page of the Koran caught fire, as this is the obvious intimidation of another religion. However, this is Americuh and we do things differently here.

2) He chooses now to do this. Not 2002, not 2003, not 2004. Now. What makes year significant? I personally suspect this man is a closet racist, like with most hyper-conservative movements that have gripped the nation. Why? Because the hypocrisy of him not doing it when a white president was in office, but as soon as a black man is president he whips out this deliberate act of hate. What took the man 9 years to think "Hey, let's burn the Koran in memorial of 9/11" and not 1 year, or 2 years? I'd say the same thing over the Tea Party Movement, but that's getting off topic.

3) One could argue that he's only doing it because of the mosque being built near "ground zero" but that only furthers the claim that this is a hate crime while staving off the racism claim, which is like choosing the firing squad instead of the chair. It doesn't make him look good regardless. In fact, the whole mosque protests in itself are technically hate crimes. You don't see the church getting kicked out of Europe for its thousands of years of persecuting Muslims, Jews, Pagans, and Atheists. You don't see the church getting kicked out of America for dominating and crushing the Native Americans. Had to get that off of my chest, but the hypocrisy of the anti-Muslim movement is so f***ing painful for me to listen to.


Also ground zero is a total joke. Other countries have dealt with far greater tragedies and gotten over it. You don't see London getting turned into holy ground because of the V2 bombings during WWII. They lost the same amount of people who died during 9/11 every f***ing day of that war, at least. If "ground zero" is holy grounds then England must be the f***ing promise land.

#19
iAmweAsel

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i am with handzzz ... absolutly stupid discussion for me.

#20
AntiThought

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The problem is we give him the time of day and the platform (TV News trucks - on air interviews) to carry out this stupidity, and that makes us all guilty.



It is likely true that if the media did not pay attention to him he would not get the attention of people more than 100 miles away. Unfortunately the media did give him his spotlight and I feel it is the responsibility of the rest of us to do something even if it is as simple as this forum posting, e-mailing the church in question to let them know how we feel, or even sending a letter/e-mail of rejection of Dr. Jones' ideas to a local mosque to create a ripple effect showing that we do not all believe as this idiot does. The Muslim extremists have ruined the image of Islam for us I am not going to sit idle while our own extremists ruin what is left of our image with the rest of the Muslim world. All of us are only guilty of giving him his platform if we do not speak out against him once someone gives him the stage.

#21
Duckie

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When it all comes down to it, some people are just really, really stupid. Some people believe that being counter productive is actually being productive, and they fail to believe that being counter productive is counter productive. Oh well, his loss. Why would I care about his lack of self definition.

Its just like that stupid ass Westboro Baptist church.

#22
Matty_c

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I just wanted to get other peoples take on this event. I will post my resources used below if you would like to take a look yourself.


This guy is an ass and a bigot. Someone should burn him and let that be a lesson to the rest of 'em :angry:

#23
PHANTASM

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Muslims can build a Cordoba Mosque (victory mosque, named after the Spanish city where all Christians and Jews were exterminated during the Moorish Invasion) in New York City a few blocks from the WTC site. This is legal, even though it infuriates 70% of the USA.

Christian fundamentalists can burn a Koran, quite legally, even though it infuriates Muslims. As long as they legally purchased the book it is theirs. Get over it. It is just done for attention.

My feelings regarding Islam are rather extreme, but I keep them to myself out of respect for those who would disagree.

By the way you can oppose Islam without being a racist, since Islam is not a race, but an expansionist religion. (Husa is whiter than me lol)

Most people in the Middle East violently opposed Islam when it started 1300 years ago, so were they racist?

I actually had a roommate from Pakistan when I was in college, I had no information about Islam either way and no prejudice. But I have studied Islam and come to the conclusion that I do not support it.

from http://www.raymondib...deceit-in-islam

As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High's Word: "We [Muslims] renounce you [non-Muslims]. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us — till you believe in Allah alone" [Koran 60:4]. So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility from the heart. And this fierce hostility — that is, battle — ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [i.e., a dhimmi], or if Muslims are at that point in time weak and incapable [i.e., taqiyya]. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the heart, this is great apostasy! … Such, then, is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred — directed from the Muslim to the infidel — is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them (from The Al Qaeda Reader, p. 43).

/endcopy

#24
AntiThought

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....Also the man is probably a racist.......

If I were to go around lighting black people's houses on fire, that would be racist, and a hate crime. This is no different, except instead of burning houses I'm burning religious material, which could be deemed even more insulting. I know perfectly well that if I started publicaly burning Bibles, the legal system would try to shove the book so far up my ass that I'd have trouble sitting. In almost every other country the man would have been arrested the second the first page of the Koran caught fire, as this is the obvious intimidation of another religion. However, this is Americuh and we do things differently here.

He chooses now to do this. Not 2002, not 2003, not 2004. Now. What makes year significant? I personally suspect this man is a closet racist, like with most hyper-conservative movements that have gripped the nation. Why? Because the hypocrisy of him not doing it when a white president was in office, but as soon as a black man is president he whips out this deliberate act of hate. What took the man 9 years to think "Hey, let's burn the Koran in memorial of 9/11" and not 1 year, or 2 years? I'd say the same thing over the Tea Party Movement, but that's getting off topic......

.....If "ground zero" is holy grounds then England must be the f***ing promise land.


Malo there are people of nearly all races who are of the Islamic faith. There is no evidence I have seen that this is linked to racism but rather to a hatred or fear of a religion. Do not bring race into this until it can be proved otherwise that it is a motive for him.
lol at the England thing though.

My feelings regarding Islam are rather extreme, but I keep them to myself out of respect for those who would disagree.

By the way you can oppose Islam without being a racist, since Islam is not a race, but an expansionist religion. (Husa is whiter than me lol)

Most people in the Middle East violently opposed Islam when it started 1300 years ago, so were they racist?


The only posts so far that mention racism are your's and Malo's (and now this one). As stated above I never said he was racist nor is that of concern to me either way. Despite what you may believe I do not support Islam as a whole just as I do not support Christianity as a whole (among other faiths) for the same reason. According to the holy texts of both I should be put to death for my faith.

#25
PHANTASM

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The only posts so far that mention racism are your's and Malo's (and now this one). As stated above I never said he was racist nor is that of concern to me either way. Despite what you may believe I do not support Islam as a whole just as I do not support Christianity as a whole (among other faiths) for the same reason. According to the holy texts of both I should be put to death for my faith.


I have been accused of racism many times, which is funny, since I am Chippewa, Winnebago, English, German, and Polish.

My German ancestors would puke in dusgust at me. My Great-great great grandfather was a major in the Prussian Army when they invaded France in 1870.

My Native American ancestors would cry at what their race has become. They were slaughtered and the white men married the surviving Indian women.

#26
AntiThought

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I have been accused of racism many times, which is funny, since I am Chippewa, Winnebago, English, German, and Polish.

My German ancestors would puke in dusgust at me. My Great-great great grandfather was a major in the Prussian Army when they invaded France in 1870.

My Native American ancestors would cry at what their race has become. They were slaughtered and the white men married the surviving Indian women.


No worries I don't think you are racist :D . I myself am of Scottish, Irish, Creek and Blackfoot (both Native American), a little from English, and some either Spanish or Hispanic blood.

#27
PHANTASM

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BTW, the great Prophet Mohammed was a pedophile. He had sex with a ten-year old girl.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed

After the death of Khadija, it was suggested to Muhammad by Khawla bint Hakim that he should marry Sawda bint Zama, a Muslim widow, or Aisha, daughter of Um Ruman and Abu Bakr of Mecca. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both.[54] Traditional sources dictate that Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad but the marriage was not consummated until she was nine or ten years old. Later, Muhammad married additional wives, nine of whom survived him. Aisha, who became known as Muhammad's favourite wife in Sunni tradition, survived him by many decades and was instrumental in helping to bring together the scattered sayings of Muhammad that would form the Hadith literature for the Sunni branch of Islam.

#28
kdoto

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ah yes, stupid people doing stupid things. typical

#29
Malokyte

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I'm not saying I believe all people of Muslim faith are a certain race, but I wouldn't be surprised if this preacher does.

He's choosing an awfully fishy time to host this, which is why I suspect it. I'm not saying burning the Koran is racist (though I do believe it's a hate crime), but I suspect racism is one of the side causes for him doing it now. He could have done it during the Bush years, which he did not. It would have made more sense too, closer to 9/11 than now. I just can't believe that he thought "Oh, it's 9 years after 9/11, let's burn the Koran." Conicidentally during a black president's term, who a large majority of Americans think is Muslim now for some stupid reason. I can't prove it, but it's a lingering impression in my mind.

And I used the burning of black people's houses as an example that would have been taken as a hate crime. I personally view bookburning in general as a form of oppresion for the effected group, which is why the easiest way for me to show my opinion would be to parallel it to something equally bad in my mind. Maybe I'm weird to think that, but I would feel pretty damn threatened if somebody ran around burning books I treasured, as I'm sure a Christian would if suddenly all Muslims on his block hosted a Bible burning. And the current definition of a hate crime in U.S. law is:

A hate crime is usually defined by state law as one that involves threats, harassment, or physical harm and is motivated by prejudice against someone's race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation or physical or mental disability.

Koran burning is something I would view as a threat and harassment due to religion, so I see it as a violation of law. And even if it varies from state to state, Florida law states:

Hate crimes in Florida are defined as criminal acts that "evidence prejudice" based on race, religion, ethnicity, color, ancestry, sexual orientation, national origin, mental or physical disability or advanced age of victim.

I would say classifying the Koran as material of an "evil religion" and then commiting essentially harrasment by burning their religious material in public would constitute a hate crime in Florida.

And I didn't intend for it to come off as a corelation to bashing on Islam and racism.

#30
Duckie

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BTW, the great Prophet Mohammed was a pedophile. He had sex with a ten-year old girl.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed

After the death of Khadija, it was suggested to Muhammad by Khawla bint Hakim that he should marry Sawda bint Zama, a Muslim widow, or Aisha, daughter of Um Ruman and Abu Bakr of Mecca. Muhammad is said to have asked her to arrange for him to marry both.[54] Traditional sources dictate that Aisha was six or seven years old when betrothed to Muhammad but the marriage was not consummated until she was nine or ten years old. Later, Muhammad married additional wives, nine of whom survived him. Aisha, who became known as Muhammad's favourite wife in Sunni tradition, survived him by many decades and was instrumental in helping to bring together the scattered sayings of Muhammad that would form the Hadith literature for the Sunni branch of Islam.



So what... what does anything in this thread have to do with the religion itself... All I see is people upset at other people... this doesn't have anything to do with religion. Religion is FAKE, it is a made up entity created by PEOPLE.

If we're talking about religions, they all have stupid teachings. Stupidity is not a property of the religion, it is an inherited property of which is endowed by its creators... Personally, I think you are trying to single out the Islamic religion a bit too much. Although there is truth to your reasoning regarding the fact that the basis for their teachings are a bit unsteady, it isn't a property of Islamic religion itself, its a property of being part of an extremely unintelligent species who follows any political, religious or communal idea to such a degree that they actually believe it is the truth. Because we do this, this issue that "people are stupid" should supersede any issue regarding subgroups of "people that are stupid". And what I mean is, you can't take a species that is intrinsically stupid, and expect them to come up with really intelligent religious teachings, or you also cannot expect to have them act in a manner which is smart. That idea just doesn't make any sense. So instead, to further support my notion that people are stupid, I've compiled a list of things off the top of my head to depict that its not religion thats stupid, its just people.

1. In Christianity, God loves you and he will save you forever, but if you don't believe in Jesus and accept the teachings which state he died for you, the God who loves you will send you to burn in a fiery pit for all eternity. STUPID.

2. Ex-members of the FBI report that Lee Harvey Oswold did not execute JFK. There are mixed reports regarding specific members of the FBI who had worked with other specific members of the FBI to take him out. However, these ex-members of the FBI are considered as measly conspiracy theories and not as crucial evidence to what actually occurred. STUPID.

3. Individuals in North Korea believe that Kim Jong Il's birth was fortold by a Swallow (a f***ing bird), and that a double rainbow had appeared in the mountains that day on his birth. STUPID.

4. Toyota has created automobiles which are mass produced and sometimes do not stop under certain conditions due to software problems. STUPID.

5. PI is the mathematical relationship between a circle's diameter to its perimeter. There are groups of mathematicians dedicated to finding the true meaning to the fact that the calculus based computation of PI is never-ending serious of unique digits. STUPID.

6. Infinity ward decided to NOT create dedicated servers for Modern Warfare 2, despite the fact that there were over two hundred and fifty thousand pledges to do so. STUPID.

7. I'm creating a post about the fact that people are really stupid, but in the end, I'm stupid too, and you reading it could just be as much of a waste of time as it was to read about the moron that is burning the Koran.




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